Problem with the episode "Justice"

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by The Overlord, Jan 20, 2013.

  1. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    To be fair, Picard did question Tashat about reviewing laws and customs and she said "they listed nothing of punishment." That implies she was through with her research but maybe needed to ask the question in person once she arrived at Edo.
     
  2. Zaku

    Zaku Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    So, can you kill anyone outside a punishment zone?
     
  3. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Probably, which means the crime rate should go up with punishment zones around. We know from the real world that the death penalty or other harsh penalties are not a deterrent because no one planning a crime expects to be caught and people who do it in the heat of the moment don't think about the consequences. The latter group would still not think about the consequences so it doesn't change anything and the others would soon realize that being in a punishment zone and being caught is less likely than being caught in a system that punishes you no matter where the crime was commited.
     
  4. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    My only problem with the episode is that Brenda Bakke wasn't completely naked.

    :adore:
     
  5. USS KG5

    USS KG5 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly, it doesn't make any sense. It would not stop crimes of passion, or crimes by someone who actually considers themselves immune from the law. An average Earth mobster would have shot all the mediators and be running Edo in a week.

    The whole episode simply shows a world with a light variation on the old utilitarian idea "the death penalty fro double-parking" which even utilitarians know to be impractical, and then after 45 minutes points out... "its impractical and unfair".

    Though everyone knows this episode sucks ("we can run can't we!!" yuk :wtf: ) so I think I'm digging too far.
     
  6. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Hmh? Advanced technology would appear very likely since our heroes considered themselves justified in contacting this planet in the first place. Also, the local God is clearly manifest in the lives of the natives - it is only "said to be up there" but known to "make itself felt most fully". When Liator says the latter, he's rather blatantly speaking of the God's ability and willingness to deal with situations like the one at hand... So, God is quite likely to provide the Police Department with the monitoring and transportation services it needs.

    Only if an offender can plead "being outside the zone". Which he of course can't do: if he gets caught, he was inside a zone, or at least can't prove otherwise. The odds of getting punished are not reduced by the zone system in practice.

    Why the zones exist even in theory (as opposed to the entire planet constantly being one giant zone) is probably to provide a modicum of plausibility: the criminals know there are very few enforcers, and this system caters for the fact.

    Also, note that the system is not intended to combat specific crime. It is intended to terrorize the populace. Those who believe in it become exceptionally docile and cautious; those who don't become bold and visible and are quickly culled out of the gene pool by judicious executions. That is why the nature of the crime is of no relevance, and why the punishment for all offenses is death rather than, say, months-long torture.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  7. Zaku

    Zaku Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In the episode, they explicitly said that the ONLY punishment is death and ONLY in the punishment zone? So if I do something against the law near a punishment zone (but not in!) and a mediator sees me, he can't do anything?
     
  8. USS KG5

    USS KG5 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That would be the situation, yes. I'd assume that the punishment zones are large enough to make this unlikely.
     
  9. Zaku

    Zaku Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Thanks. You know, after all these years, these episode can still surprise me for its idiocy. The writers came up with a very stupid legal system so our heroes can proudly say: "You have a very stupid legal system. But we are so better than you that we respect and obey it....
    ...
    Ahhh... f*** it.

    Let's run away!":lol:
     
  10. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    pretty much-it's the kind of legal system that would only be used in fiction to illustrate a point, it makes no sense from any other perspective.
     
  11. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Doesn't sound likely, as being next to a Mediator seems to define a Zone...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  12. Captrek

    Captrek Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not necessarily. After a few millenia of removing criminals from the gene pool while encouraging law-abiding citizens to spend their lives screwing their brains out, they may have bred a population who eschew crime by their nature.
     
  13. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    er, I don't think criminal behavior is necessarily genetic, especially when "criminal behavior" in that society can be as vague as "accidentally stumbling over some flowers."
     
  14. Zaku

    Zaku Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm not sure about this. From of the episode (after Riker attacked the mediator to defend Wesley):

    So, they commited a crime near a mediator, but not in a zone. Heck, they assaulted a mediator!

    Worst. Legal. System. Ever!
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2013
  15. Captrek

    Captrek Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I’m not saying the law itself is encoded in their genes, but a predisposition to obey the rules and fear punishment is most definitely a genetic trait. It’s why dogs make much better pets than jackals.
     
  16. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    If that's you're only problem with that episode... count yourself lucky. I for one get a little nauseated by the presentation of oily sun glistened Aryans being a Utopia
     
  17. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    What have you got against oil?
     
  18. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    besides having to carpet bomb third world villages to lower the price at the pump by a penny? Nothing... Just kidding, lol

    But seriously, you must know you glanced over the point. The oil is there to accentuate the sexuality, which is there to heighten the sense of an ideal culture of carnal pleasures, an ideal culture 100% comprised of simple minded Hitler fap fodder

    It's a bit gauche at the very least, especially since they'd already featured the belligerent, dishonest, kidnapping, vaccine lording culture of people who looked and sounded like they'd just walked out of Eddie Murphy's fictional Zamunda

    Were all those things likely inadvertent? Probably, but it's still a reason to have problems with those 2 episodes in my opinion
     
  19. Captrek

    Captrek Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Also worth noting is that the Ferengi look like antisemetic stereotypes.
     
  20. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    As in no Africans, Asians, Hispanics, Middle Easterners, and everyone in blonde wigs?

    As for the semi-nudity and sexual themes, we already knew by that time that Roddenberry was a bit kinky.
     

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