Post-DS9 Cardassia

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by Renvar, Sep 23, 2008.

  1. Jono

    Jono Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Would have loved to see that on screen when Sisko orders the Dominion fleet put on screen you see the main force arrayed out to face them and then in the background you see ships firing on the surface and noticeable explosions.

    As for how many planets were affected it would also depend on how many planets in the Union had a Jem'Hadar or Breen presence and whether or not the Founder's orders to kill the Cardassians reached these other garrisons before the Cardassian military started to actively turn on their "allies".
     
  2. bintak

    bintak Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    This has never been historically true. Evil governments have a way of turning on you and causing considerable International Law and moral grief to you.

    Iraq is the standard recent case or does the Kuwait War immediately following the Iran/Iraq War demonstrate the problem?

    I could make a case that the Kuwait war and the Iraq war closely models the Dominion war as to ethically questionable causes and indefensible IL outcomes.
     
  3. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    True... that reminds me though... when The Defiant went after the renegades in "To the Death" O'Brien said a couple of quantum torpedo's would be enough to level the area. That area couldn't have been that large- only 150 Jem'Hadar, about 1/3 were in the building... whats the supposed "yield" of one of those QTs?
     
  4. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's not the initial explosive force I'd necessarily be worried about, though that could be pretty bad. It's the fallout and atmospheric effects. Who knows just what sort of particles are involved when they say "quantum"...
     
  5. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ahhh... also true...
     
  6. superstring01

    superstring01 Commander Red Shirt

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    I tend to think that the Klingon Empire was still weakening (like, say, the UK after WWII) and was probably struggling to keep its dominance over so many non-Klingon worlds. The Federation, being the natural superpower in the region, probably absorbed most of the Cardassian Empire. It's a metaphore for the USA & the UN.

    It's probably in the interest of the UFP to rebuild and absorb Cardassia as a full member as quickly as possible.

    ~String
     
  7. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think Cardassia would have to "apply" to enter into the UFP wouldn't it?
    I imagine the other powers will provide food, medicine, and help with protection until it gets back on its feet.
     
  8. superstring01

    superstring01 Commander Red Shirt

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    Correct. But the UFP could absorb it as a protectorate and occupy it as part of the final treaty during which time Cardassia could be rebuilt and allowed to apply in its own time.

    ~String
     
  9. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Cardassia as a Federation member? Ugh...why? I don't think every defeated power should end up getting absorbed.
     
  10. superstring01

    superstring01 Commander Red Shirt

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    As Edington pointed out, the Federation's goal is to grow and seeks to bring all worlds to the Council. The Federation wants to bring everybody into the fold. Remaking Cardassia into a nation worthy of membership would be a great victory.

    ~String
     
  11. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It would be a heck of a conquest, true. But I, personally, do not think that the Federation should absorb every other power it comes across. It would be nice to have Cardassia be a better neighbor--but I think that could be accomplished without their having to completely lose themselves.
     
  12. lvsxy808

    lvsxy808 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It has been referred to in passing. In Demons of Air & Darkness (and others) it was stated that Cardassia's remaining fleet was rather pitifully small (barely over a dozen operating Galor-class ships if I recall, many of which were running in states of disrepair).

    And in Fearful Symmetry, there are scenes of the Jem'Hadar attacking and slaughtering everyone at a prison facility housed on one of the moons of Cardassia Prime, thus implying that the destruction and bombardment happened within the entire Cardassian home system, but perhaps only that system.
     
  13. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Where did you get the "one dozen" bit? The Trager was definitely operating with a lot of damage, though, and as far as I could tell was the ONLY ship the Cardassians were able to spare to help with the Gateways crisis.
     
  14. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Really? So the United States and the United Kingdom should not have allied themselves with the Soviet Union during World War II -- even thought they may never have been able to defeat Nazi Germany without the Soviet alliance?

    I'm not saying that allying yourself with an evil government is ever a good thing, or that it's ever just easy, or that it won't contain risks and costs and consequences. I'm not saying it will never come back and bite you in the ass. I'm not saying that it's always, or even usually, what liberal democracies ought to do.

    What I AM saying is this:

    1) Sometimes, in especially dire situations, it is necessary. The US and UK needed the USSR to defeat the Nazis; the Federation needed the Klingons and the Romulans to defeat the Dominion.

    2) When liberal democracies DO form alliances or agreements with evil governments, sometimes the result can be that their good "corrupts" that evil government's nature. Does anyone really expect the regime in China to survive as the world becomes more and more interconnected and liberalized? I don't.
     
  15. superstring01

    superstring01 Commander Red Shirt

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    This is true. The UFP doesn't really "care" about the internal government (see: Prime Directive). It wants peacefully coexistence. For membership within the UFP, however, we know that the requirements are strict.

    I still see the UFP as wanting Qo'nos and Cardassia to take their "rightful place" at the Council, though. Both seem on likely paths towards admission: the Klingon Empire was dieing and Cardassia was dead. After any nation collapses, it can be rebuilt according to the aid-givers standards. The UFP being the most powerful nation in the quadrant, is the likely Superpower to give that aid. With a Kitomer-esque peace treaty OBVIOUSLY on the horizon with Romulus, it seems likely that the only two signifigant concerns for the UFP would be from a resurgent Dominion (unlikely because it's obvious the UFP was not going to make the mistake of being caught with its guard down again and the Dominion pushed back through the wormhole) and the Borg.

    ~String
     
  16. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Again, though, where does this notion come from that every nation's fate must ultimately be to be absorbed by the Federation? (Assimilated, if you'd like another word.) To rebuild is one thing, and a good one--but to absorb them...why?
     
  17. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Well, from a real world perspective, it probably comes from Gene Roddenberry, because his idea in early TNG was that the Klingon Empire had joined the Federation. It was later writers who retconned that so that the Klingons had always been independent. But Gene's notion was that we demonstrate that we can be friends and overcome our differences by having the Klingons now be Federation Members.

    And I think that the Federation has every right to make that its goal so long as the Federation doesn't interfere with the rights of foreign states to refuse. In other words, the Federation has the right to have the peaceful and non-coercive persuasion of every civilization to become part of the UFP as its goal, so long as it respects foreign states' wishes when they decide not to join. It may be somewhat ethnocentric of them to hold that goal, but it certainly doesn't violate anyone's rights -- and it does have the side-effect of fostering interstellar peace.
     
  18. superstring01

    superstring01 Commander Red Shirt

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    Because membership doesn't erase member worlds. It's a slightly more cohesive UN. Nothing brings security like having every warp capable world a member. It practically eliminates the threat of war.

    ~String
     
  19. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It doesn't erase member worlds, but it does force conformity to a greater degree than I think I would be comfortable with, and fosters a relationship of dependence upon a central nexus rather than alliance between equals. I, for one, would rather be approached to be part of an alliance, NATO-style, than actually become PART of an organization. (DON'T get me started on the UN.)
     
  20. superstring01

    superstring01 Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm not defending the UN. I'm not even talking about the UN. I'm addressing the fact that the Federation considers its mandate to make all people members. The UFP is like the UN and being a member doesn't do much more than allow members to share the peace, and ensure tranquility from within.

    ~String
     

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