possible reason we never seen the phaser rifle after w.n.m.h.g.b.

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by stationzebra, Dec 24, 2012.

  1. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Enterprise ignored elements of "Balance of Terror" (Romulan cloaking being an amazing new thing, details 22nd century starship technology) and the Next Generation episode "First Contact" (details of Klingon/human first contact)

    But you have to remember, TOS often ignored elements of earlier TOS - like Kirk's middle initial changing, antimatter going from starship fuel ("The Naked Now") to something with the ability to destroy everything, everywhere all at once ("The Alternative Factor") and back again. Shuttle craft not existing when it's convenient to the story ("The Enemy Within"), Vulcan mating going from an extreme taboo ("Amok Time") to a conversation piece ("The Cloud Minders") etc. and I think it's kind of strange that fans tend to gloss over this stuff when pointing out the changes made to TOS in other shows.
     
  2. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    The thing about TOS was that a lot of the established Star Trek concepts were being invented as they went along. Some things were altered as the series was taking shape--Starfleet and the Federation were among several concepts that weren't there in the beginning, but they became retconned in later as being such as the Star Trek Universe became more established. It's easy to look at TOS and say it contradicted itself at various points in the beginning, but TOS was very much a work in progress back then. It became more cohesive later on, IMO.

    But some initial TOS concepts weren't so readily dismissed after the series ended, while others were. The United Earth Space Probe Agency (which eventually was renamed Starfleet Command) continued to appear after those early TOS episodes in both VOY and ENT, and lasers were continued to be used as weapons--albeit less powerful than phasers--by several alien cultures in various episodes of TNG.
     
  3. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    ENT and TNGs "First Contact" work fine together.

    • Centuries Ago. check. ENT takes place two hundred years prior to TNG
    • Disastrerous. check. Archer pretty much screwed the pooch every time he met a Klingon.
    • Decades of war. Its possible as we have large periods of "history" that are unaccounted for. Who know what trouble Archer may have caused then.

    We also don't know who made first contact with the Klingons. It might have been the Vulcans before the Federation was formed. IIRC, they have surveillance before contact policy. They might have introduced the policy into the Federation and Starfleet.

    Also, the guy who wrote the line in "First Contact" said it was fine.
     
  4. Ronald Held

    Ronald Held Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I did not recall that. Is that for hand or rifle phasers?
     
  5. 1001001

    1001001 I Like the Beats and the Shouting Moderator

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    It was a hand phaser.

    http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/_...alpha/en/images/2/28/Lily_captures_Picard.jpg

    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: Maximum setting. If you had fired this, you would have vaporized me.
    Lily Sloane: [sheepish] It's my first ray gun.
     
  6. RAMA

    RAMA Admiral Admiral

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    Even in 1965 those phaser rifles looked kind of silly.
     
  7. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, when they were in the chamber with the view of Earth, it was after Picard demonstrated the force field that Lily surrendered the phaser.

    This, Picard was more than most a "Federation Citizen." When he spoke of our disastrous first contact with the Klingon, he wouldn't automatically have been referring the Humans.

    The decades of war might have been during his time as President of the Federation. he would have been in a position to have caused even more trouble there, than when he commanded a single ship.

    We know through ST: Enterprise and Kirk's statement that United Earth Space Probe Agency existed, and did so through the mid 23rd century (and maybe beyond that).

    [​IMG]

    :)
     
  8. 1001001

    1001001 I Like the Beats and the Shouting Moderator

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    For the record, I never said that.

    :lol:
     
  9. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    But I did.
     
  10. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    The rest of my post actually said that. Various Trek art departments have also sprinkled references to UESPA here and there over the years, but most require screen captures to find them. In VOY's Friendship One, the probe of the same name had a UESPA emblem and registry (UESPA-1) on its hull.
     
  11. Gary7

    Gary7 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    I never liked it, even when I saw it back during the years before TNG. It looked much too primitive, akin to the hand lasers. The type II phaser that followed looked far more conventional and plausible in design.

    The need for a rifle still existed, but we just weren't given scenarios where it made sense to use it. I have to admit, I never really liked the TNG rifle either. It looked too much like the dust buster hand phaser, which was a stupid design to begin with. A pistol grip with a chamber that rests across the wrist is the most practical design for a human held hand weapon. Sci-fi productions have tried to deviate from it purely for the attempt to look different and modern... but it's still silly nonsense.
     
  12. TREK_GOD_1

    TREK_GOD_1 Commodore Commodore

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    Well, Phaser I successfully accomplished that in 1966, and it proved to be as practical a hand-held weapon as the pistol version. Add the ability to conceal it in a way one cannot with PII, and PI could be the perfect Starfleet personal weapon.
     
  13. cgervasi

    cgervasi Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I thought it was hard to imagine calling them ACE or BEE guns. But if phaser hadn't entered the language through Trek, I would think of the word phasor, which in engineering is a phase vector representation of a sinusoidal voltage or current. "You can't name a gun that I'd think."

    I wonder if they had called them ACE guns if we'd just accept that as the word for it. It would be more ingrained than the idea the word Amazon represents a retailer.
     
  14. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Admiral

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    For an explosive-propelled projectile weapon, yes. But an energy beam weapon could have a completely different shape.

    [​IMG]

    The first time I heard phasers mentioned, I thought of the word "faze" and assumed the weapons were "fazers."
     
  15. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Commander Koenig, please... put the stapler down...
     
  16. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    I was wondering what the coaxial ports were for.
     
  17. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    And there you hit the mark with the phaser/laser props, too.

    Remember that the ones we are discussing had one very prominent feature - multiple barrels or firing chambers that were rotated into position? The rifle had just one barrel but three identical-looking chambers; the sidearm had three stubby barrels of differing lengths and diameters.

    Looks and sounds like a multi-function weapon to me. One barrel fires stun phaser beams, another fires kill phaser beams, and the third is the ever-handy extra, the cutting laser...

    Separate barrels for stun and kill reappear in STXI. And while the standard phaser is the preferred tool for cutting in "The Naked Time" already, note that this weapon, too, appears to have two cylindrar barrels - one within the other!

    My preferred excuse here thus is that in the 2240s, the standard sidearm carried a few extra functions, but increasing integration replaced this with just two barrels in the (alternate?) 2250s and (or?) with just one multi-function contraption in the 2260s, and the additional complexity of the laser barrel was either ditched as counterproductive, or integrated into the standard sidearm. The 2250s rifle with three different functions / firing chambers was simplified at the same time and the older model went quite out of fashion. OTOH, much like its 24th century counterparts, it had never really been more powerful than the heavy sidearm versions. It had merely had certain bells and whistles also quoted in the DS9 era: multitargeting, gyrostabilizing and whatnot.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  18. Darkwing

    Darkwing Commodore Commodore

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    This dry land thing is too wierd!
    I find it easier to assume phasers were invented in the 23rd century, finally replacing all lasers in the mid-2260s, and that phase pistols are a product of a different universe.
    That, and the phaser rifle was tested, then discontinued, and replacements were only fielded by units showing a need, such a MiliOps Command vessels, Marines, etc.
     
  19. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    For making julian fries, it's a must for the gift giver.
     
  20. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    I don't see how the "different universe" rationalization is easier.