Pope: Atheists Who Do Good Are Redeemed

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by brian577, May 23, 2013.

  1. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    They'd say the tale of Adam and Eve's a metaphor to explain violence and evil in the world to which humanity is prone. They don't teach there being a literal Adam and Eve. The way the CC teaches it, evolution works great for doctrine.
     
  2. B.J.

    B.J. Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Right. The Church does not teach the bible literally, and the Catholic school that my kids go to even teaches evolution.
     
  3. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Problem with that is, God supposedly created us flawed without "us" (as in our ancestors) having a choice in becoming cursed and flawed.
    So he created us broken with an actve part on our side to be loopholed into paradise...

    That makes God just a dick!
     
  4. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, the Pope's off to a good start.
     
  5. Dart

    Dart Commodore Commodore

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    Next week the Pope proves all religions are true!
     
  6. thestrangequark

    thestrangequark Admiral Admiral

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    Does this mean I don't get to hang out in limbo anymore?
     
  7. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Forget mud guy and rib girl. People are all broken, and we are all guilty of doing something hurtful to someone along the way.

    :bolian: Nope, the Catholic Church has never taught Biblical literalism. Because the fundamentalists / literalists get so much press, a lot of people assume that all Christians are literalists. The reality is that Catholics and mainstream Protestants (Episcopalian/Anglican, Lutheran, Methodist, etc.) are not. If some individuals are, it's despite their denomination's teachings, not because of them.
     
  8. Portal

    Portal Commander Red Shirt

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    I thought breaking the 3rd Commandment was a mortal sin.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  9. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Commander Red Shirt

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    This isn't surprising from the Holy See. As I've always said about those of us in the Catholic Faith, we're always far too busy hating ourselves to take the time to hate others.

    On a serious note, while the Church does have some positions that I still do disagree with them on, it's good to see them taking a step out in front of so many of the mainstream Protestant sects yet again.
     
  10. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    I like you, but... that's bullshit. Damaging bullshit, too.
     
  11. siskokid888

    siskokid888 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    So he is going with Aquinas instead of Augustine. A little more tolerant. Still all bullshat though.
     
  12. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    We all have weaknesses of some sort, we have all made mistakes, we have all been hurt at some time. That's all I mean. Not that we're all bad or something. You think that's bullshit?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  13. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hmm, how come? Everybody's made mistakes, everybody's hurt and been hurt.

    Or basically what she said just above me, lol. Especially the "not that we're all bad."
     
  14. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Things are broken. Not people.
     
  15. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    To me it still smacks of people as sinners or fallen from some perfect form in short Christian guilt. Having limitations such as a disability, or less facility at math or languages, or having made some mistake to be rectified does not make one broken or fallen in some fashion.
     
  16. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^True, it does. To me, that is not a problem, because no matter how good we are -- and I do believe that most people are mostly good -- we all still do some bad things. One way some people/religions describe that is by saying that we are all sinners.

    Then suggest a better word for what I was describing.
     
  17. horatio83

    horatio83 Commodore Commodore

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    Obviously you are entirely correct. I am an ex-Catholic but I don't think that original sin / fall from paradise are bad literal-religious ways to express what you described in plain English.

    I think what some people do have a problem with though is the way that the Catholic church has historically approached this, with confession (oh, I am so bad, I have sinned, punish me) on the one hand and all the songs about the glory of God which are uplifting (it is like a spiritual drug, it makes you feel godo for some time).

    I think that an ideal church should be a place where people can "lower their shields" and show how broken they are. Peter Rollins can it express better than me. And I guess that the early Christian communities which consisted of many poor people and outsiders were more similar to this than post-Constantine Christianity.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  18. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Indeed. And, actually, confession -- or the Sacrament of Reconciliation, to use the current term -- can be a good place to lower one's shields, when the priest approaches it that way. Unfortunately, they usually don't.
     
  19. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    The problem is that that kind of language (broken, fallen, evil, sinners, etc) shifts the blame from what we do to what we are. It takes away personal responsibility. "Good" and "evil" are just labels for promoting or censoring behaviours that are beneficial or harmful: they are not states of being.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2013
  20. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Even being one of those who believes that one gets to Heaven by faith in Christ, I think this is a fine thing for the Pope to say. Good on him. :techman: