Poll: In Star Trek XI, was Pike like Pike?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Focus Abbey, Jan 1, 2010.

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Was Pike in ST:XI like Pike in The Cage?

  1. Yes, they seemed like the same character.

    18.8%
  2. Greenwood's Pike reminded me of Hunter's Pike.

    18.8%
  3. They seemed like completely different characters.

    62.5%
  1. Focus Abbey

    Focus Abbey Commander Red Shirt

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    How well do you think Bruce Greenwood captured the character of Christopher Pike in Star Trek XI? Whether you liked or disliked Pike in the movie, do you think he seemed like the same character portrayed in The Cage?
     
  2. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    I think he probably played an older version of Pike. While Hunter's Pike has been often described as being moody and reluctant, that was really only in the beginning of "The Cage." Otherwise, I think Greenwood played Pike a year or two prior to his accident, IMO.
     
  3. Broccoli

    Broccoli Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'd say they were two completely different characters. However, CE Evans makes an excellent point. Hunter's Pike was in a completely different situation that Greenwood's Pike was. Hunter's Pike was going through something that made him reflect deeply inward. It could be argued that "The Cage" Pike wasn't typical Pike.
     
  4. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    I had no trouble seeing both Hunter's Pike and Greenwood's as the same character, or as versions of the same one. Hunter's Pike was burned out and mentally exhausted from what we can infer was a particularly rough stretch of duty, and he was experiencing pessimism and self-doubt. If the events of "The Cage" did happen also in the alternate timeline (which isn't a given), then Greenwood's Pike appears to have put it behind him and returned to what we might assume would be, for Pike, a more normal, calm and confident demeanor -- he's also had time to grow in experience and knowledge.

    Your poll question, however, doesn't quite seem to be asking that.

    Obviously, Pike in ST:XI is not like Pike in "The Cage" because Hunter's Pike is (by design) not himself; he's strained to the limit and on the verge of coming apart at the seams, while Greenwood's is a centered, older and wiser Pike. However, it looks like you realized that wasn't the question you really wanted to ask, and amended the thread title. Taking that as the question instead, I'd still have to go with what I said above over any of the options in the poll: I have no trouble seeing them as the same character, albeit at different points in life and under very different circumstances (and, of course, written more than forty years apart for two different mediums.)
     
  5. Starbreaker

    Starbreaker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's hard to embody a character based upon 50 minutes of screen time. I don't really see any resemblance or even try to explain.
     
  6. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't see much resemblance. Anyway, Greenwood's Pike was a lot better.
     
  7. stonester1

    stonester1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I saw the, FELT them as the same character. Different points in lives/career, but absolutely. They both had the same stoicism, same explorer's yen, and just the same kind of square jawed, subdued, focused machismo. Not over the top or super colorful, just the guy who gets it done, no matter what.
     
  8. Sector 7

    Sector 7 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They seemed like completely different characters.

    I think Greenwood's Pike was a much more developed character than we saw in "The Cage" over 40 years ago in a failed pilot for the Star Trek we later came to know.
     
  9. pookha

    pookha Admiral Admiral

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    this is how i saw it.the pike at the end of the cage is far different from what he was at the start of it.

    very much pike got his mojo back during the cage .

    his self assurance and command presence is very much there at the end.

    he looked like a man willing to take on anything after what he went through on that planet.

    and the film i believe would have taken place after the events of the cage.
     
  10. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Commodore Commodore

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    Pike in 'The Cage' was going through a particularly rough patch at that point in time. He was angry, a little dispondant, and was questioning whether he was happy where he was after the death of several crewmembers during his prior mission.

    There is no reason why that Pike cannot be the same character as the more confident, more assertive one we saw in ST11. Like other have suggested already, it stands to reason that the Pike in 'The Cage' wasn't his normal self. Both Pikes are the same character for me, different actors and timelines aside.
     
  11. Broccoli

    Broccoli Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Come to think about it, Pike never beeped in ST09. Totally not the same character...
     
  12. Clancy_s

    Clancy_s Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The 2 where at such different times in their life I don't think you can tell for sure. To me Greenwood's Pike is a possible development from Hunter's but not the person I would have expected.
     
  13. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Commodore Commodore

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    Surely it would be Greenwood's character that would have developed into Hunter's? 2233 vs. 2254 isn't it? That would seem more likely. Though nu-Pike's life was changed with Nero's shenanigans. Promoted to admiral away from Enterprise duty, and so unlikely to have the accident that put him in his beeper in 'The Menagerie.'

    Having said that, I'm more a fan of the total reboot over the alternate timeline theory. :p
     
  14. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    His accident didn't happen until he was promoted off of the Enterprise in the original timeline. Would've much preferred if Greenwood had played April.
     
  15. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Commodore Commodore

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    Ah yeah, I suppose he could still have his accident. I just mean that with the new timeline he could pop up again in the future. :)

    I'm sure I read somewhere that in the original script that instead of Robau it was going to be April, but then instead of the Kelvin we'd have gotten the original Enterprise. The destruction of that would have led to Pike taking over the Enterprise-A. The timing sounds a bit off but it sounds more interesting.
     
  16. Sector 7

    Sector 7 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I agree. How could anyone confuse the two?:devil:

    As for April, he was never canon. I am glad they kept it that way in ST09.:techman:
     
  17. Kane_Steel

    Kane_Steel Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    They were completely different.

    NuPike is from a universe where he didn't experience the events of "The Cage" and all the crap that Prime Pike suffered through.

    Therefore, NuPike is more of a calm, fatherly figure/mentor-type.
     
  18. Focus Abbey

    Focus Abbey Commander Red Shirt

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    I personally wonder whether the circumstances shown in The Cage were portrayed as tremendously unusual for the Enterprise or particularly formative for Pike. I mean, sure, he was in a low point. But compare the events in the pilot to many other episodes of Star Trek and we see events that are more-or-less a matter of course. I think there's a temptation to blow it out of proportion because of the singular nature of the episode.

    What I'm trying to say is that Pike would probably be at least somewhat contemplative and self-critical even on a good day. I mean, if you watch the conversation between him and the doctor at the beginning of The Cage, the doctor doesn't seem to think that Pike is acting wildly out of character—he just thinks he needs a break.

    My feeling is that Pike was used more as a plot-catalyzing prop in ST:XI than a full-fledged character. I didn't see any recognizable nods to the Pike shown in The Cage.

    Thoughts?
     
  19. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    B-b-b-but what about the wheel-chair? Surely that's all we need to see to connect this version to the Pike we saw in The Cage. :guffaw:
     
  20. Keeper

    Keeper Commodore Commodore

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    They seemed like completely different characters.

    I chalk up the differences to this Pike being a different Pike. This Pike didn't have the exact same life experiences as the original therefore he is different.

    I don't think it a bad thing either. If anything, it is another example of the film going out of it's way to prove this isn't the same Universe as the Prime, (and the same applies to differences for all the characters.)