Discussion in 'Voyager' started by spot_loves_data, Apr 7, 2012.
I'm 7 won't mind if Janeway needs a step stool.
Sometimes a typo is just a typo?
I think she meant I'm sure 7 won't mind if Janeway needs a step stool.
Anyway, I think initially Janeway was supposed to marry Chakotay but then some weird writing got its foot in the door and made Chakotay and Seven a couple?
How bizarre is that? Chakotay had absolutely no chemistry with Seven... the only person he barely had any chemistry with was Janeway. What they did made no sense and frankly, someday I'm going to write a fan fic where it is discovered that Chakotay was under the influence of food improperly replicated and accidentally merged with behavior altering drugs from the Doctor's bioexperiments... or something.
Yes I meant I'm sure but I sadly had to leave the keyboard before I reread it and edited and made it all perfect.
Mulgrew said they were going to hook Janeway up with Chakotay and she put her foot down and said NO, first woman captain needs to be getting on with the captaining and not messing around with romance. She was mad they were going in that direction.
As to 7 and Chakotay I think he was the perfect tester dummy lover for her. He's kind, he won't push her boundaries or do anything outside of his passive nature, he's an entrance level relationship. One step up from the hologram version. Of course she won't stay with him, but she made a safe choice and he made his usual choice--a complicated woman who calls the shots.
We saw how Seven picks men in Someone to Watch Over Me.
She sellects the best man, not the best man for her.
But you don't think they kept close to stay warm while camping in Natural Law?
Yes I think that's very likely. I'm sure the relationship had some genesis off screen.
Nanoprobes make cold irrelevant.
I seem to recall her shivering on more than one occasion. I think they only make cold irrelevant if you're hooked up to the collective.
Anyway "I'm cold" is an classic way of getting someone to sit closer.
The shivering was from having Chakotay around instead of Janeway.
teacake: Yes, but in "Endgame" it was revealed that Seven was married to Chakotay for three years until she died. So she wasn't just trying out love on him.
Guy Gardener: Perhaps the "Natural Law" episode had something to do with it but I don't think it would have happened so late in the series. By that time, she would have thought of Chakotay as a coworker and their relationship would have already been defined. It's very unlikely she would consider him relationship material.
Who knows why she picked him for her simulation in "Human Error" because in "Someone to Watch Over Me", he wasn't on the list. (I guess at that time the Janeway/Chakotay relationship was still on the writer's table. )
Divorce is inefficient.
teacake: LOL! Perhaps so... In my opinion, the take away from this whole Chakotay/Seven thing is that they wanted a romance at the end of the series and Mulgrew wouldn't go for it. But I think they could have come up with something more plausible. Say, Harry Kim finally ends up dating the Delaney sister that he should have been dating all along? I mean really.
Chakotay/Seven aside, it's quite possible that Janeway would have married Chakotay when Voyager got home... her not commanding the ship and all.
Admiral Janeway sabotaged that union by first telling them both that they are fates bitches, and second just because they had made the best choice from limited options, the admiral seriously expanded the happy couples human dating pool by trillions, which means that the choices they made were bullshit.
Everything Admiral Janeway said to her child version of herself, had to have been a lie to make sure that when Captain Janeway rebelled against her (She's a Scorpion, it's in her nature. Oh, you thought the Borg were the Scorpion? Then why was Seven so helpful in Shattered?) to force the opposite of what she said that she wanted, until what really came to pass was exactly what the senior Katherine had in mind all along.
Was Seven having sex with the Hologram Chokotay?
That's a pretty serious fricking clue she wanted his babies.
I realize I am the only person in the history of fandom who was perfectly happy with 7 and Chak hooking up. It's kind of odd too as 7 is my favorite Trek character ever and I pretty much have no opinion of Chakotay because I find him so passive and dull. However I do firmly believe he would be good for 7, as I said a kind man who would endeavor to make things easy for her and not be demanding at all. He's not going to try and get her to change other than some genial encouragement from time to time. Most men couldn't handle 7's personality, their manhood would be threatened by her autocrat manner and lack of need for them. Chakotay has no manhood to speak of which is why he was such a pawn of Seska's. He won't be threatened by 7 and, in her favor, she won't at any point manipulate him. She's not the warm woman he needs but she's also not an abuser or liar. I think it's a very good place to be for both of them, as a kind of resting place relationship. It's not a relationship that could be built on but 7 at least is not at the building point as far as relationships go.
Kathryn Janeway was born on May 20th and so is a Taurus.
Scorpion not Scorpio.
Does Astrology work when you travel back in time to before you were born?
The Hologram Chakotay was probably written once they took the Janeway/Chakotay pairing off the table. The writers whipped up the Chakotay/Seven pairing out of whole cloth and didn't derive it from normal character development. What you're all saying makes sense, and the pairing would have worked had it been properly developed, but what the writers wrote didn't work.
Granted, with how the story ended up, the writers make sense if you're willing to accept their idea that Seven suddenly wanted Chakotay near the end of season seven in "Human Error" when for three years she didn't give any indication that I can remember as to her wanting him.
I believe in attraction at first sight, and gradually building attraction over a period of time but not... no attraction for years and then suddenly wanting someone's babies. That doesn't fly with me. By contrast, with the Paris and Torres relationship, one could see it gradually build.
Seven didn't show her emotions much, true, but you also can't expect someone to believe, "She grew to love him over the years and never showed or hinted at anything other than a professional relationship to him or to the audience until Human Error." It might be repressed emotion, but it doesn't look like it. It just looks like bad writing.
I'm sorry, I'm just a stickler for proper character development and I don't like characters doing things out of the blue like that. It wouldn't have been too much trouble for them to say that she developed feelings for Chakotay over the years secretly. Just mentioning that once would have been better. I'm not angry or anything, I just like to analyze plots and characters.
You're forgetting about the cortical implant that turns off her brain if she generates emotional reactions to extreme for the Borg's liking. It was almost impossible for seven to fall in love romantically. She could only create a relationship logically without accidentally killing herself. Which is something we all do, as we plan futures with people we barely know and do not understand, and should not trust or have faith in.
Yeah, I've done that myself about some girls I've known, I must admit.
I suppose the borg considered romance to be worse than other emotions such as anger. Romance is one of the best emotions I know of for causing distraction and thus inefficiency.
Seven had a perfectly complete and healthy subconscious she developed in Unimatrix Zero in real time for decades, which quietly fed her broken conciousness the bare bones of what she needed to make it in the world without giving away her secret life, till she finally got on top of all this individuality bullshit
Everyone forgets Auxum, but he so should have been the guy for Seven waiting at the end of the book.
You can say that up till unimatrix zero, even though awake, she didn't know it, Seven.... "Anika" was involved and content so of course she didn't go on the prowl.
After the collapse of Unimatirix Zero, that both meant that NOW she knew that she did have a boyfriend who she was supposed to be faithful to... And that she was in an unworkable long distance relationship that she needed to deep six.
You can see how she might be conflicted somewhat in so far as what step to take next with Neo, I mean Auxum?
Separate names with a comma.