"Planet of the Titans" Revisited

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Maurice, Sep 20, 2008.

  1. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I love the look of the PotT Enterprise, always have since I saw it in the Phase II reference book I got years ago.

    In my own personal continuity, I have it that Starfleet did indeed design and build such a ship and designated it the Titan-Class (which I chose since it was designed for PotT) since it was the largest ship built by Starfleet at the time (with the Titan being commissioned in 2265). A purpose-built deep space explorer, she was designed to last for years out in the depths of uncharted space, away from support.

    The Titan was placed under the expert command of Number One, which was why she didn't assume command of the Enterprise, or why she wasn't at hand to help Pike return to Talos.
     
  2. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

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    ^Actually, we see her as a Commodore in issue #1 of John Byrne's Star Trek photonovel/fumetti comic book from IDW, talking to Kirk & Co post-mission on a viewscreen.
     
  3. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    It never ceases to amaze me, that we saw the stern part of this ship in Earth Spacedock in ST III:TSFS.

    Maybe that's where the Starfleet Museum is located, too, and that's why Morrow had the Enterprise anchor there (to become the latest addition of the SFM?) ;)

    Bob
     
  4. austen_pierce

    austen_pierce Captain Captain

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    Yep... I was wondering when this pic would find its way onto this thread. Research into what the heck I was looking at in this scene from TSFS is what led me to discover PotT and the two study models. Again, I'm a starship junkie.

    I wish PotT had been made into a feature film as conceived. Let TMP then be a reboot. The two don't need to be connected. More Trek is never a bad thing.
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Oh, holy cow, I see it, in the background just below and left of the Enterprise. You mean that's the study model for the Adam/McQuarrie "Star Destroyer" ship?

    Hmm... I suppose, in-universe, it could be a descendant of the "Warp Delta" ships seen in Enterprise. Although in reality it's probably the other way around.
     
  6. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    The outline was used in unofficial technical manuals and blueprint packs, with TMP-style hull details, as the Ariel-class shuttlecarrier.

    Personally, I like to think that maybe it had the insane floating platforms/Futurama tube internals seen in the concept art upthread, and that Starfleet design perhaps isn't so uniform as we tend to assume. And I love that it looks bigger even than the Excelsior, tying into the enormous pre-TOS ships seen in the new movies.
     
  7. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    I still think TITANS could be done as a standalone TREK film, either with a new cast or new universe or reboot. Doesn't have to be Kirk & Spock, either.

    in fact, I liked the idea of doing it with April ... you could have the saucer go back in time and April's guys become the titans, and the rest of the vessel, remaining in the 23rd century, becomes the basis for Pike/Kirk's Enterprise, establishing just how old the Enterprise really is at the time of its destruction, which has got to be about 40, not 20!
     
  8. austen_pierce

    austen_pierce Captain Captain

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    April.... yes. That would be interesting indeed.
     
  9. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wonder if it was supposed to be this:
    http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Magellanic_Clouds

    Here is yet another view:
    https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3545/3351497986_11ecc354ff.jpg

    Now I do seem to remember how folks hated filming around the refit model--and some even considered blowing it up (glad that didn't happen.)

    The McQuarrie-prise would be better for camera work--even if the model was huge, the nacelles--being short, could be slid on and off those wide supports.

    There would be plenty of attachment points along that long wedge.

    If you made the model really large--say, 30 feet long with architectural model detail--it would put the Cygnus from The Black Hole to shame. That wide stance means you can put a big camera between the nacelles and fly along the top of it towards a city-ship saucer rising in the distance--that was what Ralph wanted--were I to put myself in his shoes.

    That is the only way to do that design effectively--coming off as all but being miles long.

    Probert wanted elegance: Ralph and Adam? Filmability.

    The Ariel was to point towards a ship that could travel between galaxies. Were I to do a take, it would dwarf even Vengeance. Instead of the two rocket tubes, two clusters of antennae of different lengths--like those we saw on the aft of the ship on the cover of the novel Dreadnought! except facing forward. The secondary hull would have terraces as would the saucer. The underside of the secondary hull would have a dome like on the Star destroyer, but would actually be a huge dish--as the Snark did up top: http://www.reocities.com/Area51/aurora/9557/cobb6c.html

    The aft view would be like the tail of the Venator, only without the tubes.

    I can just hear Holst's The Planets playing as a camera zooms in on this monster...
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2014
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    No, I think that idea came entirely from Vonda McIntyre's imagination and had nothing to do with the filmmakers' plans. It was probably just supposed to be "Okay, do we have a spare ship we can stick in the background of this shot? Any old thing will do, since hardly anyone will get a decent look at it."

    I mean, didn't the same shot have a spacedock shuttle whose nacelles were made from disposable razor handles?
     
  11. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Pretty sure that is the one passing over the dish in drydock in TMP, not in the sequels.
     
  12. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    That's funny, I just made a post on trekmovie about how Mike Minor used Kaplau's MUTINY ON THE BOUNTY music to embellish HIS storyboard of the Enterprise leaving dock in Phase 2 (tracking back with the ship as it ascends, so you see Earth and moon and sun dropping and receding.)

    Your notion for that kind of shot is really borne out by the paintscraper flyovers of RED OCTOBER, which are genuinely spectacular. They had to build a special rig with mirror to get lens to seem so close to hull, but with a larger model that wouldn't be as necessary (or they could have used the periscope/snorkel system used occasionally to great effect in TMP (nacelle view as ship leaves dock, SO cool!)

    Given that you had so much action in TITANS with the saucer detached, you'd be wise to build one giant model that separated, otherwise you'd have to build additional scaledup models besides the hero one.
     
  13. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

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    AFAIK, the only shuttle made from razor handles is the little shuttle from TNG when the Ent-D docs at Starbase 74 in "11001001".

    http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x15/11001001_hd_040.jpg

    Also seen up close in the Reading Rainbow TNG special (it's at 1:33 in to this clip)
    http://youtu.be/aR4AzMfcnjU
     
  14. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I seem to remember an up close shot of that model. That is the only gripe I have with CGI--you have to make a lot from scratch.

    Junkyards are filled with all kinds of plastic odds and ends that you turn one way--and it looks like crap--turn it another--and have it fit some other object--and it just works. Sadly--few folks allow visitors at junkyards.

    I collect a lot of cast off plastic bits--but get "modeler's block" when I can't find larger shapes that "deserve" the little greebles. I saw one guy at the RPF forum who just glued any old things together--and it didn't look right--but he was getting something done--more than me I should say. I would just look at a part and think "that's not a bridge, that should be a nozzle."

    It wouldn't have done for me to work with Sternbach--I would have frozen.

    TITANS was to come out long before NuBSG did the shaggy god story--and would only have worked as the last Trek adventure, and since Adams did ground bases so well for Bond, he was perfect for the saucer sep.

    As I see it, we would have a controlled descent, unlike what we got in Generations, with dishes, a central command tower, landing pad, etc, all rising from the center of the saucer.

    I can just imagine the level of detail. The edge of Adams saucer is a little sharp, even for me. Ralph's saucer had a rounded edge that helped soften things a bit.

    I might explain that the rounded edge was itself a torus shaped space station that slid up and out-from-around the edge of the saucer before descent, so you have a lot of action on screen. The circular, "O" shaped station remains in orbit, and the saucer--its many storeys now visible, becomes a true colony base.

    The lower sensor detaches and we see a huge pedestal extend down--and perhaps a super-long stairwell at the underside cut where the saucer pylon attached

    Probert's beauty is in how she launched. But you really don't see the refit do anything.

    Ken's masterpiece--had it went past study models with those chunky Mann-class like placeholder saucers--would come alive, unfurl--deploy a dozen different ways.

    The Moonraker hamster tubes would have given folks a place to hide, run up and down several levels...Man, we really missed something.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2014
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yeah, come to think of it, that's probably what I'm remembering. I knew it was something set inside a "mushroom" spacedock.
     
  16. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    One of the problems with trying to say what would have happened in this film is that the artists were apparently just blue-skying (McQuarrie said this) a lot of the time because there wasn't a script yet, so they were providing creative fuel to the process. So even though they illustrated saucers landing, that mightn't have even been in the script, just them showing what could me done. Likewise, the asteroid starbase/dock was just McQuarrie throwing ideas out there, as the idea of an inhabited asteroid was something he'd been noodling with for some time and on other projects.

    I think it's funny that people talk about building some huge model to outdo to opening of Star Wars, because that Star Destroyer model was a tiny 3' long. I've seen it in person. They built a much larger model for Empire, but it's still only about 6-7'.
     
  17. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I believe the ship that flies away from the Enterprise and is destroyed at the end of of TNG's "Starship Mine" was made from a razor handle as well
     
  18. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    You can tell at the end of the shot that there's a super wide angle lens (a tilting lens, like for the titles) used, due to some distortion, but it doesn't wreck the shot at all. The real trick is managing to light the thing in a nice-looking way while the camera is scraping right by without messing anything up; makes me think that if they had a really good rig like the one used to shoot the nacelle scrape in the drydock departure in TMP that you could have done even better, but maybe the fact it works as well as it does is serendipty, considering they spent months considering building a 40' underbelly for the shot.
     
  19. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

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    I like the razor handle shuttle. Deserved to be used more.

    lol, Levar Burton looks like a dork in that video.
     
  20. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    What 40' underbelly? The biggest Star Destroyer model I know of is the edge of the Super Star Destroyer seen at the end of Empire, which I've seen in person.