"Planet of the Titans" Revisited

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Maurice, Sep 20, 2008.

  1. Ryan Thomas Riddle

    Ryan Thomas Riddle Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  2. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, but you can't see anything without an account.

    Anyway, that 3D model (while nice work) is just a very loose takeoff on the Titans concept, and doesn't follow either Adam nor McQuarrie's drawings in any real way, although it leans towards the McQuarrie ultra-wide version more than any of Adam's sketches, which tend to lean towards the faster looking high-nacelled idea here (excuse the fuzziness):

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2008
  3. Saul

    Saul Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Thanks very much guys for these very interesting pictures. Love the bridge design. The wasted space reminds me of something from Star Wars.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Come to think of it, there is a certain logic to a ship design with that much empty space. If the ship is hulled by meteoroids, or by enemy fire, then the more empty space you have, the lower the probability of a populated section being hit. In space, with no air resistance to worry about, there's no cost to having the ship's volume be larger than it has to.

    Of course, the empty space would then have to be in vacuum, so that the heat and shock of the impact would not be transmitted to populated sections, and so that no air would be lost from the hull penetration. And that's definitely not what we're seeing in that Adam sketch. Also, it's a moot point when you have magic deflector shields that function as hull armor.
     
  5. GodThingFormerly

    GodThingFormerly A Different Kind of Asshole

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    Except for the increased mass penalty, which would be an issue if the impulse engines function as Newtonian rockets. A minimized exterior surface area would also provide statistical protection from natural hazards as well as presenting a smaller target to the enemy during combat.

    TGT
     
  6. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    There's no mass penalty, since it's the same mass spread out over a larger volume. If the space between inhabited sections is in vacuum, there's no extra mass of atmosphere. And the surrounding hull would be fairly thin and a minor contribution to the overall mass. If, indeed, there is a surrounding hull. An opened-up design like this might dispense with one, and look something like the ancient alien ship from TAS: "Beyond the Farthest Star," say.

    Not if the interior is mostly empty space. As I said, in that case, the odds of a meteroid or projectile/missile striking an inhabited portion of the ship are lowered, and if the space is in vacuum, the damage isn't transmitted beyond the immediate points of impact. Such a projectile (or rather the expanding cloud of plasma resulting after it strikes the hull and vaporizes) would simply travel through the ship in a straight line and out the other side, and if there were no populated/pressurized sections in its path, it would only damage the hull and maybe a few support bulkheads.

    This was a basic part of the combat protocols they used on Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda, according to the online discussions of the show's producers and the JPL propulsion engineer who was their scientific adviser, although it didn't come out well in the show itself. Since GRA was (originally) a hard-SF universe in which fields of force couldn't magically function like armor, there was simply no reliable way to deflect kinetic warheads incoming at relativistic speeds, not if they had thrusters that could correct against a repulsive force. Anything that hit the ship would pass straight through and out the other side. So the only defense was statistical: distribute the crew throughout the enormous volume of the ship, dump the atmosphere from every unoccupied section into space, and hope that most of the crew survived.
     
  7. siskokid888

    siskokid888 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Man, I hear you on that, Chris. TMP, for all it's flaws, was at least trying to move in that direction. But the studio then went with Meyer and Bennet's cartoonization of Trek and rest, as they say, is the sad history. At least of the film part of the franchise.
     
  8. Axiom1

    Axiom1 Ensign Red Shirt

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    Some fascinating production design sketches for POTT. IMHO 'Planet of the Titans' would have been a superior film to what STTMP was thematically and stylistically. I still like STTMP for many reasons, if not for the over use of cloud shots and the similarity to TOS 'The Changeling' episode.:klingon:

    In reference to Shigeta as Nogura, and Sulu, the fan film trailer 'STA: A Time to Heal' is finally online.

    Register, log in, and follow the links section here:

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/StarTrekAxiom/
     
  9. Penhall99

    Penhall99 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Hey, so I guess nothing ever panned out? :(

    And you know, as much as I liiked TMP, I think this would have made a cool movie. I don't like the idea of Kirk disappearing for half the movie or the Enterprise redesign (although it is interesting and kinda cool) but at least it isn't a retread of a TV episode. And it seems like it would have had a cinematic scope and feel to it, without resorting to the usual "Earth is gonna be destroyed" thing.

    I hope a screenplay surfaces someday, because I'd love to give it a read.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2009
  10. Voyagerian

    Voyagerian Commander Red Shirt

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    Thanks for the sketches of Ralph's. I still have my 'Star Wars Sketchbooks' and the great preproduction paintings from SW and Empire. I recall the painting of the proposed Enterprise and the asteroid base all the way back in an old Starlog I also still have. I did not know this Adam was in fact the one who is to be credited with the would-be 1701 design.Hmm. I did read about 'Planet OF the Titans' at wikipedia some time back, but had never heard of that project before.From the back, the craft above the moon or whatever in the Enterprise series intro kind of reminded me of that design....
     
  11. RobertScorpio

    RobertScorpio Pariah

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    But wouldn't it have been a retread? Didn't Kirk meet Apollo/Adonis and didn't Adonis explain who and what the Roman/Greek Gods were?

    Rob
     
  12. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Are you may---beee confusing this with CLASH OF THE TITANS?
     
  13. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Tell me you didn't re-animate this long dead thread just to again plug the trailer for this thing. Interesting as it might be, it's got nothing to do with "Planet of the Titans".

    I think Robert means that as "Planet of the Titans" would have ended with the idea that Kirk and Company were the titans of old, and as the Titans were the fathers of the Greek Gods, wouldn't that make for a discontinuity with how said Greek gods were depicted in "Who Mourns for Adonais?"

    If I am reading that correctly.
     
  14. RobertScorpio

    RobertScorpio Pariah

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    Yes...exactly..wouldn't that trump Adonis?

    Rob
     
  15. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    I never got that impression, though I certainly can't dispute it.
    I thought the titans reference was a generic one, relating to some race that had been detected as an early force on Earth only in Kirk's time. But given what you folks say, it sounds more plausible with the titan/apollo business. And it is in keeping with Kaufmann's stated interest in mythology. He wanted to work in a lot of Stapledon SF as well. Kind of makes me wonder if Stapledon used titans.
     
  16. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    I think the big problem with this story would be, what do you do for a sequel?
     
  17. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Do another stand-alone movie in the same universe. I think they could have used TITANS as the reboot film, and if they wanted to hold Kirk & co back for more pics, they could have done this with April's crew. Intro the ST universe anew, instead of tearing the ST universe down to create this diluted and dumbassed, piss-ant mix of STARSHIP TROOPERS and LucasLand.
     
  18. RobertScorpio

    RobertScorpio Pariah

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    ...which made lots of money and attracted a younger crowd like my daughter. JJ did exactly what was needed to insure TREK's survival..and, IMO, he succeeded and i cant' wait for more...

    HAVING said that, I can understand those who don't like this version of TREK jj is telling...so we just have to agree to disagree

    Rob
     
  19. Axiom1

    Axiom1 Ensign Red Shirt

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    Your slightly acrimonious comment is interesting, and a little perplexing, considering I've been interested in POTT long before 'your thread' existed. Not to mention ATTH was referenced by others in 'your thread' several times prior to my post. A post which if you read, mentioned a little more than a 'plug' for said ATTH trailer.

    Possibly the fact ATTH was referenced here to begin with might have something to do with its relevance to POTT?

    Threads topics do tend to slightly swerve somewhat on forums, so don't let that get you too perturbed my friend. ;)

    I imagine Data Holmes might agree with that deduction.


    I suppose we should thank the power of the galactic internet. Who woulda thunk?

    There are actually a few discontented fans out there. Yet not enough to make any great changes. However, if there can be two Hulk films that aren't sequels...why not another version of Trek? I'd certainly be game :cool:

    Realistically it won't happen, though one never knows…

    I'm still waiting for EON to switch Bonds, bring back Ken Adam, John Barry, and get the rest of the production mix right...but thats another story for another forum.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2010
  20. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    If that is the price of survival ... well, the best way I can explain my point of view is that I'd've rather had no Bond movies between THUNDERBALL and THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS than suffer through all those Moore pics.