Picard's age:

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by Kobayshi Maru, Jul 27, 2014.

  1. Kobayshi Maru

    Kobayshi Maru Commodore

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    I don't get how he needed to be this old to get to be a Captain, for reference Kirk was more than twenty years younger during TOS. Plus he had to get stabbed in the heart to even get there!!! Otherwise he would have been Lieutenant Junior grade!! What kind of organization has officers still with a rookie rank when they are ten years (at most) from retirement! I mean it took Nog a couple of years after he graduated to get there! Granted he got shot in the leg... but still! I mean even Kirk saw that in Generations when he talked to Picard about his retirement. He told him to refuse promotion (In reference to the earlier movies).
     
  2. borgboy

    borgboy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm not sure how old Picard was when he made captain, but he was the Captain of the Stargazer for many years before he was assigned to the Enterprise.

    Kirk was supposed to be exceptional that he was made Captain at such a young age. He was an exception, not the standard of most of Starfleet. It wasn't expected, or desirable, for most of the captains to be so young, they seem to prefer a more experienced seasoned officer for that position - and rightly so imo.
     
  3. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Picard was around 28 when he became Captain of the Stargazer. He is round 58 or so when we see him take command of the Enterprise.
     
  4. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    More seasoned, to command the Enterprise by the time of TNG, yes. They wanted someone with experience there

    By all accounts of profiles I've seen, Picard was in his late 20s when he took command of the Stargazer. Late 20s/early 30s is about standard for new captains. He was in his late 50's when he got the Enterprise, which stands to reason, given the prestige of the posting, after 4 other ships had held the title, & the fame it incurred under Kirk.

    Now, Riker only first becoming a captain in his mid 40s is just his own personal dragassery
     
  5. Chairslinger

    Chairslinger Ensign Newbie

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    It makes sense that in the 2370's it became a lot easier to gain rank for a character like Nog. When you have millions dying in the Dominion War, that opens up a lot more opportunities.

    Wesley's attempts to get into Starfleet in the first two seasons of TNG also portray it as much, much harder to get in than later TNG and DS9 do.
     
  6. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The reason we keep seeing Captains who are in their early twenties is, I suspect, just due to the need to present young, strapping characters to the viewers at home and in the theaters. Case in point: Kirk's meteoric rise from Lieutenant straight to Captain in ST XI (bypassing LCDR and CDR).

    As for Picard, IIRC it took awhile before his birth year of 2305 was ever established. So the writers had a lot of room to move, so to speak, about his early career.
     
  7. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    ...But this was never made explicit in the shows or movies. For all we know, everybody in the line officer business gets his own starship at twenty-two, and everybody also falls in love with that job and refuses promotions for the next fifty-three years when mandatory retirement hits (as per "The Counter-Clock Incident").

    Okay, I'm exaggerating a bit. "Conspiracy" asserts that at 25, Tryla Scott was the youngest-ever starship captain (although we don't learn whether this means the commanding position or the four pips on the collar). But nothing in Kirk's backstory suggests he would have been that young; his command history doesn't extend beyond the second pilot (where he was in his thirties already, apparently), and there he seems to sport Commander rank on his sleeves...

    We never learn when Picard gained command of the Stargazer or attained Captain rank. All we know is that he did command that ship, eventually with Captain rank, and that she was his first starship command.

    The idea of Picard having commanded that old rust bucket for 22 years is an unused concept from the writers' guide. The closest this bit gets to real application is in "Tapestry", where Q confirms that Picard (at an unknown date, at unknown rank or position) heroically took command of the ship's bridge when the skipper of that time was out for the count somehow - but realistically, such a thing would not make Picard the next captain, and certainly not immediately, and happily none of the episodes suggest such a thing.

    Well, Wesley was underage for a human. He seemed to be competing in some sort of a special supergenius quota, whereas at seventeen or eighteen (the entry age quoted for several human characters, even if there's no canon mention of this being an official limit) he no doubt could have just waltzed in.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  8. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nog made lieutenant because Sisko gives his personal friends special treatment.

    I don't know how advancement works in the real military but in Starfleet all officers are career officers. So advancement mostly comes to officers who stand out somehow due to lack of room at the higher ranks.
     
  9. Green Shirt

    Green Shirt Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Wesley faced stiff competition early on from a number of quality candidates.
     
  10. Jefferies

    Jefferies Captain Captain

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    Says who? I doubt this was ever stated on screen. Given the size and scope of Starfleet as an organisation I'm sure it commissions officers from all kinds of backgrounds for all kinds of durations and for all kinds of ranks and positions. I would think career officer is only one of many ways one can serve in Starfleet as an officer (although it might be the most straight forward). However, even in today's militaries commissions aren't bound up with this.
     
  11. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Have we ever seen an officer on screen who was not a career officer, or have we ever seen a character who entered Starfleet without the intent to spend their whole life there?

    And have you ever once heard the word 'Tour' to describe a finite assignment?
     
  12. Jefferies

    Jefferies Captain Captain

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    I don't see how we can assume this. We rarely get to hear the backstory of how someone ended up in their current post if they aren't a member of the main cast. Sure many of the main cast are career officers. However, that doesn't prove everyone is.

    It makes little sense to think that in a future where people can live to 130s+ with good health that they would want to have only one career. Also the main characters we see rarely had families. I'm pretty sure many of those who do will not be single-mindedly dedicated to a career in Starfleet for their entire life with no wish to take a break or do something more settled. I'm sure in an enlightened future like that they will have part time work, materniety/paternity leave, family friendly working conditions etc.

    From what we certainly do know is that Starfleet does embrace diversity and with that comes diversity of life styles and thus to offer only one path to being a comisisoned officer makes no logical sense.
     
  13. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    They use the word mission synonymously, as in 5 year mission. Both Spock & Bones had left Starfleet after the initial 5 year tour, and resigned their commission prior to the events depicted in TMP

    I'm not as well versed in ENT, but Archer left to become president or something right? In TNG's "All Good Things..." both Data & Worf have left Starfleet, & I think maybe Geordi too
     
  14. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Archer becomes an Admiral after Enterprise and later becomes President of the Federation.
     
  15. Kevman7987

    Kevman7987 Captain Captain

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    Didn't he die the day after the Enterprise NCC-1701's commissioning?

    I always figured that you could resign from Starfleet at any time and come back without much fuss. (Though they probably still have that "little known, seldom used reserve activation clause" for wartime or something)
     
  16. Kobayshi Maru

    Kobayshi Maru Commodore

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    Where did you get that from?
     
  17. yenny

    yenny Captain Captain

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    Picard was born in 2305.He took over the command of the Stargazer at the age of 29, when it Captain was kill. Picard had the rank of Commander at the time he took over command. On Face of the Enemy, Ensign Stefan DeSeve call Picard commander. DeSeve left the Federation and move to Romulus in 2349. Picard took over the command of the Stargazer around 2334. Cause there is no mention of a First Officer being kill? Picard himself would had been first Officer. he enter Star Fleet Academy at age 17 in 2322. Graduate in 2366. His first assignment was on board a Constitution Class Starship. Between 2366 and 2334. He is assign as First Officer of the Stargazer.
     
  18. yenny

    yenny Captain Captain

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    There is no Information of when Captain George Kirk die. There is mention of him dieing sometimes after his son Captain James Kirk had gotten the command of the Enterprise. It could had been a day, a week, a month or decade.
     
  19. ManOnTheWave

    ManOnTheWave Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In Enterprise, "In a Mirror Darkly," a scene begins where evil Archer has read Archer's biography on the Defiant. Archer's bio can be seen on the monitor.
     
  20. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

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    It has to do with TNG's origins. I consider 2 factors of relevance:

    1) They were recycling Phase II.

    In the early 70s DC Fontana said it was tactically "wrong" that the Captain would beam to dangerous planets, risking his life and leaving the ship without her commanding officer, like Kirk always did. So they created Decker (also because Shatner's salary, they weren't sure if they'd afford to keep him as the star of the show).

    For TNG Decker became Riker. The captain (not Admiral Kirk) had to be older if only to justify Riker being the default character to beam into the action outside the ship.

    2) in Roddenberry's future people live longer and retire older. So he made Picard older than Kirk yet still Starship Captain to signify that. Also he included Adm. McCoy in the pilot for the same reason.