Picard made First Contact with 27 civilisations?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by garak1, Dec 11, 2013.

  1. Armored Saint

    Armored Saint Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Hey, you forgot the virus from "The Naked time".
     
  2. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think its got to be a 'formal First Contact'.

    Say Kirk with the Gorn. Technically the people on the Starbase that the Gorns wiped out were the first to contact the Gorns. Charlie X was the first to contact the Thasians too.
    I think 'First Contact' must be where the
    represenatives of one species have formal acknowledged interaction with the representatives of another species in either a friendly or unfriendly manner
     
  3. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    The Archons and Iotians. Earlier starships contacted them first. With the Capellans whatever ship McCoy was on contacted them first some years prior. I made a point of trying to exclude those. There are a few others including worlds where contact had obviously happened long before. I didn't include the Talosians because Pike got there first.

    In fairness you have also to define what you're contacting. Is it sentient, intelligent, a race, a new species. A virus isn't an intelligent life form. The Horta and the two different cloud creatures were self-aware and intelligent life forms.

    Strictly speaking a civilization goes beyond simply a new species or race unless the term civilization is being used very loosely and perhaps incorrectly. In Trek we often see representatives of intelligent life forms, but not their civilizations. So does that still count? If not then the instances of first contact are far fewer.
     
  4. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    He certainly wanted to make "first contact" with Anij.

    Yeah BABY, yeah! :D
     
  5. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    If she's been alive for 300+ years, he will probably be going where every Ba'ku male has gone before. :guffaw:
     
  6. garak1

    garak1 Captain Captain

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    As I recall, the Traveller was travelling incognito with Kozinski. I think they knew what he was capable of, but not who he was.

    It was only during the warp experiments that his true identiy was disclosed to Picard. As such, I believe that Picard should be credited with the true 'First Contact' between the Federation and the Traveller species.

    I also believe that the Ba'ku shown in 'Insurrection' had their First Contact with Picard. Whilst the Federation was aware of their presence, there was no contact until Data was revealed to them, and even then their true identities were not revealed until their interactions with Picard.

    In regards to some of the other points made, as I understand it, 'First Contact' is proper, formal diplomatic contact between the Federation and another nation state. It is certainly possible for the Federation to be aware of other species but not to have made formal First Contact as of yet.

    This also provides a convenient method for species to appear in prequel series or flashbacks prior to formal First Contact occuring. Whilst I didn't agree with all the appearances on such species on Enterprise, I do appreciate the logic of the formal First Contact process.

    My thanks to those that posted in this thread.
     
  7. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There was a Q couple living on Earth long before Picard met Q, long enough before to have a daughter and have her grow to be an adult.

    Likely many hundreds of people met them.
     
  8. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    IIRC though, wouldn't DeLancie Q be the first Q to make their presence officially known to the Federation, though? I would think that definitely counts as first contact, whereas the Q-parents lived incognito, and Starfleet had no record of the Q Continuum prior to Farpoint.
     
  9. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I guess that it would be a matter of what is meant by "First Contact."

    Is it a interaction between two species (this is what I believe), or is a official formal meeting?

    Zephram met informally with the Captain of a exploration ship, that was considered "First Contact."

    In 'Farpoint, all Picard did is talk to a single individual. Really, there has never been a official meeting between the Q Continum and the United Federation of Planets.


    :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  10. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Encounters with the Continuum are definitely documented after Farpoint, though, so much so that Sisko and Janeway could access records about those encounters and that Starfleet could study their behavior through those records. There were no records of the incognito-Q, however (and indeed, wouldn't a Q be able to wipe out a universe's memory if they wanted to?). For whatever reason, the Continuum want their presence to be known to the Federation through Farpoint and beyond. Official documentation (record-keeping) would be an important part of First Contact: Q, the Borg, the Dominion, they all entered Federation records in their own ways -- hardly formal, but they made their presence known.

    From Memory-Alpha:
    With that said, even though Picard met with a single individual, that individual revealed the nature of his government and race as an official representative of the Continuum (the trial being a very important part of the episode's plot -- trials are judiciary, which is a government institution), and that meeting led to further encounters between their two governments, albeit usually through the same representative.

    The initial contact need not be formal -- after all, the Enterprise-D is still credited with first contact with the Ferengi, even though that was born of battle (so definitely not formal). Area 51 and the NX-01's encounters happened without humanity's true or consensual knowledge of the civilization and the Ferengi didn't identify themselves as the attacker of the Stargazer until years 9 years after their battle. The thing that defeats the incognito-Q as first contact is just that -- they didn't want humans to know about the Q at that point, so there was no first contact to speak of until Farpoint.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
  11. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    One of the reasons I don't like Voyager that much. Picard made first contact with Q AND the Borg. That was the whole point!
     
  12. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sounds like Memory Alpha screwed it up again.

    I've never been under the impression than Q was a representative of his "government." He comes off as a sadistic individual that his own people barely tolerate.



    :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  13. Avro Arrow

    Avro Arrow Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, a politician. That's what Cyke101 said.

    ;)
     
  14. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I never knew the Q Continuum had their own US Congress! *ba-dam-tss!*

    ~~~~~

    How so, exactly? If you're referencing Zephram Cochrane as first contact, then why discount T'Pol or Spock or Tuvok's traveling back in time then? They, like Amanda's parents, hid their true nature from humanity. First Contact the movie even establishes that Vulcans knew about humanity but thought they were too primitive to meet officially until Cochrane invented warp drive -- which lead to official first contact. It seems inconsistent to not count pre-warp Vulcan interaction as first contact, but trying to create Amanda's parents living incognito (pre-Farpoint) as official first contact. Vulcans were observing in secret just as the Q were, but it wasn't until everyone was made aware of the other's full presence could their encounters be considered "First Contact." After all, there's no title called "Star Trek: First Contact (But Not Really)".

    But yeah, Q is a member of his race, and from that encounter, the Federation found a new race with which they have had some sort of exchange ("They" being the TNG/DS9/VOY crews for the Federation, and Q for the Continuum). If we're comparing Farpoint to the Vulcans at First Contact, the Vulcans went out of their way to be known and didn't try to hide anything -- they exchanged information with humans. Same with Q and Picard --Q went out of his way to test Picard, and informed the Federation that the Continuum was examining humanity's evolution (which the Q had been doing silently without humanity's knowledge or comprehension up until then - and informing one group about the intentions of your own group mean you are acting on their behalf -- a representative). That sharing of information need not be cooperative or consensual (war, for example, or those tests), but both sides are aware of each other and their official designation.

    Keep in mind too the episode First Contact. Picard offered first contact for Malcorian society, but their Chancellor respectfully declined. The Chancellor and those involved are now aware of the Federation, but they felt their own people wouldn't be ready, so they withheld information from them. Due to the Prime Directive, Picard agreed to the Chancellor's request, but this highlights, again, that information about both sides needs to be shared in some way to necessitate first contact. To the Malcorian history books, they haven't had it yet. In that way, Picard and the Federation would be like the 21st-century Vulcans or pre-Farpoint Q, studying in secret and the Federation's presence kept a secret from the Malcorians. Since one side wasn't fully aware of the other side, there was no first contact -- something that Picard and the Chancellor agreed to and outright stated by the two representatives in the episode itself. On the same level, the Ferengi met with the military at Area 51, but since that was kept hush-hush, that wasn't counted as First Contact. Same with the Borg in Enterprise. As far as Federation historical records go, Picard made those First Contacts, not a human general in 1947 nor Lily or Archer.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2013
  15. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The idea that warp drive determines when a species is "ready" to be made contact with is pretty funny. It's an invention that tells NOTHING about the state of a society.
     
  16. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm sure the Mirror Universe Vulcans had the exact same thought when Cochrane shot those visitors. ;)
     
  17. Jerikka Dawn

    Jerikka Dawn Commander Red Shirt

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    What we know of the Traveler from the show is that he's from Tau Alpha C, which was a world known to Commander Riker by the time the Traveler had beamed aboard. We don't know if Starfleet made contact with the people of that world, but they seemed okay with appointing him Kozinski's assistant and he apparently had a security clearance high enough to work with the engines of the Federation flagship. One can reasonably assume that Starfleet had already spoken with at least one member of that species, namely the Traveler.

    Whether there was an official first contact is not known, but it's a reasonable assumption that Starfleet already made contact with Tau Alpha C. There's nothing to suggest that the Traveler is a separate species from everyone else residing in that system, but rather a member of that species who has learned to transcend space and time just as Wesley, a human from Earth, was able to.
     

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