Picard/Crusher

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by Komack, Jan 27, 2014.

  1. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You've really got to hand it to the producers of Nemesis in sort of an inverse way: they were able to extract absolutely every character-related aspect from the final product! :rolleyes:
     
  2. T'Cal

    T'Cal Commodore Commodore

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    In at least two episodes (The High Ground & Attached - maybe another) Crusher and Picard are in life or death situations, and she tells him, "Jean-Luc, I have something to tell you..." A friend speculated that Wes was actually Picard's son from a fling they had when she was still with Jack. They never resolved what it was she wished to tell him. In the non-canon book Q-Squared, there's a plot line in which Jack is still alive and captain of the Enterprise with Jean-Luc as his XO. Beverly, separated from Jack, joins the crew as CMO and she and Picard rekindle the torrid affair they had years ago on the down low. Excellent story.
     
  3. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I loved that plotline from the novel. And finding out Jack turned into a maniac under pressure.
     
  4. Whoa Nellie

    Whoa Nellie Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've heard that one before. In an evil mirror universe maybe – but it's just not believable, in fact it's down right silly, for the characterizations shown in the canon universe. It would mean both Jean-Luc Picard and Beverly Crusher engaging in a rather vile and despicable pattern behaviors. It would entail Picard knocking boots with the wife of his best friend and fellow officer. It would also require Dr. Crusher to lie to her husband and her son about her son's paternity - possibly having to alter medical records. Sorry, I don't see either character behaving in such a manner.

    Warmest Wishes,
    Whoa Nellie
     
  5. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Let's not forget the first duty of a starfleet officer is to the truth, whether it's personal truth, historical truth, or the truth of who's the baby's daddy.
     
  6. urbandefault

    urbandefault Commodore Commodore

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    Pfft.

    In TNG, Picard should have bedded Beverly in the 1st season and been done with it.

    That would explain her absence in the 2nd season. Her return would have been to benefit her son.
     
  7. Mister Spock

    Mister Spock Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Picard was no doubt conflicted about Beverly. She is the widow of his best friend and a subordinate aboard his command. He would feel that to pursue a relationship with Beverly, especially as she is trying to raise the son of his dead friend, would be inappropriate in the eyes of Starfleet and would also be disrespectful to the memory of Jack Crusher.

    He's better off just playing with his Ressikan Flute.
     
  8. TheSubCommander

    TheSubCommander Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Totally agree. I thought the same, too. I never could figure out if it was because the producers themselves didn't know how to handle a Picard/Crusher romance, or if it was just the two actors had no chemistry with each other, and the idea was considered but abandoned.

    I used to be of the opinion it would have been a good pairing, but now I am not so sure it would have been.

    Sometimes I think I am the only Trek fan than couldn't stand Vash. Her jacked up teeth just bugged me.
     
  9. wtriker1701

    wtriker1701 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I found their hinted relationship quite intriguing. Would have loved to see it to be continued on the big screen.
     
  10. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Johnny should've had Bev in his Ready Room, in NAKED NOW, there's no question about that. I agree that it would've served to clarify her departure, later. But, oh well ... whatcha gonna do ...
     
  11. AgentCoop

    AgentCoop Fleet Captain Fleet Captain


    I agree. I never liked Vash and thought she was a terrible choice for Picard's girlfriend.
     
  12. TheGoodStuff

    TheGoodStuff Commander Red Shirt

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    This is it exactly, definitely what the writers were going for. Im just disappointed that they didnt pursue this line further. I'd have enjoyed seeing them get more interaction while clearly falling in love.

    Beverley could have been tormented by the thought of her ex husband and how her son would react, while Picard could have wrestled with feelings of guilt, of betraying his friend and of a taboo that may effect his friendships and career.

    Its such a pity they didn't go down that road. Hell, it would have been a great sub-plot in the movies instead of 300 year-old random aliens and tommy-gunning borg drones.
     
  13. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Bev was only too prepared, in NAKED NOW, to bed Picard. True, a strange alchemy was at work, but it only served to release their inner fantasies and desires. And just how long is she to mourn her husband's loss? After all ... Picard sure as hell did not authorize ENTERPRISE to Warp 10 it around the Sun to bring Jack back. He certainly had the means and and opportunity, considering some of their occassionally "random" destinations, just before closing credits on some episodes. Maybe having a cougar and an old fart making out a lot just wasn't going to get the ratings, so they just played it "safe," as infatuation. But had Bev and Johnny gone ALL the way ... I sure as hell did not want to keep hearing about "Jack, Jack, Jack ..."! Make a move and explore its potential, or not at all. Unfortunately, aching, longing and yearning is how TNG's Creative Team chose to show their discression ...
     
  14. SiorX

    SiorX Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I like Jennifer Hetrick, and I think she makes Vash charming beyond the occasionally terrible material she's given to work with in QPid. To me she's a fun match for him during his occasional holiday flirtations with pretending to be an action hero. Had they remembered her for movie!Picard, we might have been spared Anij.

    I'm sure it wasn't part of any plan, but I prefer how Picard and Crusher played out to the 'mutual guilt over Jack' angle. I like that we see guilt from Picard and none from Beverly. Yet in both Allegiance and Attached Beverly's the one putting the kibosh on taking it further. Her reasons are never really explained, and their friendship is scored through with seemingly random peaks of sexual and romantic attraction without any apparent pattern. And I know that's accidental, but for me it's one of the loveliest relationships in Trek. They might end up together. They might just be BFFs. Neither outcome feels inevitable. But either way, they have a deep and mature and happy relationship.

    (But then, I also think McFadden and Stewart have fantastic chemistry, and that's clearly in the eye of the beholder.)
     
  15. TheGoodStuff

    TheGoodStuff Commander Red Shirt

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    I would certainly agree with you. Obviously Stewart's qualities have been written about extensively but McFadden gives a classy, intelligent, independent yet fun personality to Beverley that I think suits Stewart [and Picard] perfectly. I always felt Picard would eventually wake up one morning next to Vash, once the fun and allure had worn off, and think "ugh...what the hell was I thinking".

    I do wish Picard/Crusher had been explored more like how I mentioned in my previous post. It could have been a mature [in both senses], deep and interesting relationship. It would have added depth to the TNG cast.
     
  16. Whoa Nellie

    Whoa Nellie Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Although Picard and Crusher work well as friends and fellow officers, I think the characters are just too similar for good romantic chemistry.

    Nathan Fillion's character Richard Castle said it best,
    "Yin Yang is harmony. Yin Yin is the name of a panda." :lol:

    That's why I prefer Picard with Vash. Vash's brazenness complements Picard's more sedate personality perfectly creating a very compelling dynamic to their relationship. That kind of dynamic just isn't present between Picard and Crusher.

    Warmest Wishes,
    Whoa Nellie
     
  17. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ...AGREED!!! Yes, Vash was the equation that worked. Picard without her was like Cornflakes without the Milk! And you know, I'm really glad that he met her. We always heard about what a wild man he was in his heyday. And whilst I would've expected him to have slowed down, somewhat, by the time he met her, I don't believe he would've had a personality overhaul. Vash saw right through Picard's veneer of duty, honor and obligation and recognized the cocky bastard he really is ... deep down ... underneath ... you know?
     
  18. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Personally I think Vash was the hottest woman on TNG. That hair, man. Plus they make a good looking couple.

    Although, Picard and Crusher do make a good bickering couple in All Good things. But with Vash he could end up exploring some ruins or something after he leaves Starfleet instead of just making wine.
     
  19. SiorX

    SiorX Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't want to get into a ship war, because ultimately it just comes down to what works for you as a viewer personally and there's no one right answer on that.

    I will say though that I firmly disagree with the idea that Picard's commitment to duty, honour, and obligation is a veneer. A 'cocky' Picard (who can handwave theft, vandalism, and the destruction of most of what archaeological science holds dear for profit from a longterm partner?) is not a Picard that I'd even recognise, tbh.
     
  20. Whoa Nellie

    Whoa Nellie Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    :techman: She brings out the 'Hell bent for leather' ensign Picard. After all, the man was stabbed in the heart in a bar room brawl over what was basically a rigged pool game. Picard was the one who rigged it. Vash has him storming a castle single-handedly, all for the love of a maid.

    :techman: Exactly, The Vash character was a gold mine of untapped potential!

    :techman: Agreed. That's why my co-author and I used to giggle at the 'Well, it's a good story, but how dare you pair Picard with Vash instead of Crusher' OTP reviews. We considered them badges of honor. If they took the time to read and review it then as writers we did something right.

    First we are talking about 'screen archaeologist' (Indiana Jones, River Song and such) not real modern day archaeologists.

    However, that is exactly what canon shows us. According to canon, before meeting Picard on Risa Vash spent five years working as a personal assistant to Professor Samuel Estragon, an archaeologist who's work Picard knew. It was Professor Samuel Estragon who was originally hunting for the Tox Uthat. It was also Professor Samuel Estragon who hired the Ferengi Sovak to aid in his explorations, especially in situations that weren't quite ethical. Moreover, Picard isn't surprised at all and is amused by the idea. (3rd season episode Captain Holiday.)

    PICARD: Any woman who can beat a Ferengi at his own game, bears watching. :)

    Also in the 6th season episode "The Chase," Picard's own mentor Professor Galen comes aboard the Enterprise and attempts to BRIBE the captain with a Kurlan naiskos, very rare archaeological artifact, wanting Picard to leave his captaincy to become Galen's muscle.

    GALEN
    "... I'm sorry, Mister Picard. But that information has a price --your agreement to join me on the final leg of this expedition."

    PICARD
    "For how long?"

    GALEN
    "Three months. Perhaps a year. If we had a starship and complete diplomatic access -- a matter of weeks. But we'll have only my shuttle, the transports we can arrange, and our combined talents."

    PICARD
    "Why can't you do this without me?"

    GALEN
    "I'm not a young man. There will be hazards along the way. I don't want my own inadequacies to jeopardize the completion of this work."



    In this episode Professor Galen is operating exactly the way we were told that Professor Samuel Estragon did and the way Vash did. Therefore, it is a believable extrapolation from series canon that fieldwork in interstellar archaeology can be a somewhat rough and tumble, wild wild west like business.


    Warmest Wishes,
    Whoa Nellie
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2014