Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Professor Moriarty, Aug 13, 2007.

  1. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Fascinating! :techman:

    According to the Datin dimensions the shuttlebay model would have a length of 122' or 37.2 meters in real life.

    The Jefferies cross-section would suggest that the observation corridor began somewhere around 356' and ends at the stern at 478'. That's exactly 122'! :eek:

    Although Matt Jefferies had suggested a shorter length in his The Making of Star Trek TOS cross-section his Phase II cross-section now obviously tells us that he accepted and approved the bigger VFX model and authenticated its dimensions by reflecting these in his "new" cross-section. :)

    Regarding the circular "hatch" I'm somewhat unable to link this one to the Mike Minor intermix shaft. We have other vertical structures in the cross section but none corresponding with the yellow circle, which has moved considerably further stern compared to the TOS Enterprise.

    It almost appears there's extra storage in the vicinity above the observation corridor for small shuttles or Probert Workbees but not an engineering room.

    And the length of the engineering hull has almost jumped from 340' (TOS Enterprise at 947' O.L. without main sensor) to 478'. Is there something I missed?

    Bob
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2013
  2. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Funny, I just commented on that space in the thread about the supposed Phase II MSD.
     
  3. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Apparently we were on different "pages" but for once we are on the same "page". Sounds encouraging. ;)

    Bob
     
  4. MGagen

    MGagen Captain Captain

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    Perhaps, but it is incomplete. Here are a couple of details from the original:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    As you'll note, the engineering section is actually labelled. Also, the hangar features more original detail. Finally, there is a legend that gives the precise coordinates for Engineering, Hangar Deck and Shuttlecraft Storage and Maintenence.

    Notice especially that the deck in Engineering is called out as 2 feet lower than the hangar deck (which is on the centerline of the hull). One final item of note is the elliptical profile of the hangar doors. An interesting detail, that.

    M.
     
  5. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

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    It helps to know how Jefferies laid out his coordinates for the Enterprise. Here is a quick graphic and some example locations (all coordinates are in feet)…


    So according to Jefferies, the secondary hull is 343 feet long… 3 feet longer than the TOS Enterprise secondary hull without the deflector dish.
     
  6. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Thanks. I've never seen the plans that clear before. Is there a full version in that LOD (level of detail) out there anywhere?
     
  7. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    @ MGagen & Shaw

    Many thanks for the details and clarifications, which literally put things into their proper perspectives.

    Now it rather appears that Matt Jefferies did not like the VFX hangar model. Although the VFX model had only pairs of two windows in the observation corridors, Mr. Jefferies obviously preferred to have pairs of three.

    It's also obvious that the engineering section is slightly ahead of the (yellow) bottom circle.
    I just can't help but wonder where this now puts the engine room(s) of the TOS Enterprise.

    According to "The Immunity Syndrome" and the alien entity's exit point in "Day of the Dove" (TOS without R) it would be ahead in the engineering hull's bow, according to the Phase II closeup detail it would be astern. :rolleyes:

    Good thing, then, that I visualized one engine room in each of these locations in my TOS deck plans to be on the safe side. ;)

    Bob
     
  8. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    Finally got a chance today to check out this thread, and loving the revelations about the origin of the Shuttlebay render! It's great to have some new information about TOS come to light, even after all this time.

    As for the Engine Room, it now seems very likely that the yellow hatch is strongly connected to the engine core. But if yellow signifies engineering ejection systems (or access), what about the yellow rectangle behind the bridge?
     
  9. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    Perhaps yellow circle is different than yellow rectangle? Or it's not an ejection system but a hatch that covers engineering things like power transfer while in dock, fuel transfer, etc?
     
  10. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    I concur, it probably rather indicates "maintenance hatch" than "ejection" (though it doesn't exclude this possibility). You can have a yellow alert in spacedock, but I'd find a yellow "eject" while in spacedock rather unlikely. :)

    Other yellow rectangles (saucer surface, starboard saucer underside) are probably personnel hatches. The yellow rectangle behind the bridge is a bit enigmatic. Either it's an access point for a docking tube in spacedock or something else.

    Bob
     
  11. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Mere speculation. It's more likely Jefferies was just working from his original drawings rather than trying to match the filming model.

    The fact that everything in this hangar drawing is untapered also reinforces the argument that the sloped hangar drawings in TMOST are plans for a forced perspective model.

    Finally, one thing that strikes me about all of Jefferies hangar drawings is that the "booths" are shaped just like the shuttlecraft hatch, even with lines that match the places the hatch doors split and where the windows are.
     
  12. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Wow, MGagen, that sure is definitive! Thanks for sharing.

    It seems to me that the Phase II version of the ship reflects an effort on Jefferies's part to revisit some of the concepts for the original ship and improve on them where he could. I think the second bridge turbolift is emblematic of this. Makes me wonder if we were to assume that the slightly altered saucer and secondary hull contours were "really" like that all along?
     
  13. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    ^ I haven't read of any story treatments for IN THY IMAGE or TMP that don't include drydock and refit, so I think any changes were going to be covered under that heading, rather than pretending it always looked this different way.
     
  14. MGagen

    MGagen Captain Captain

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    I think it is pretty obvious that he treated the Phase II E as a true refit.

    One of the clues is how closely the interior section view from TMOST matches the interior section of his Phase II ship. Even the turbo paths match. It has also made me wonder if there wasn't a large, detailed section view of the original ship in his possession when he drew the new one. I mean, he even plotted out the deck thicknesses and locations of various rooms. Is there still a TOS Jefferies cross section kicking around out there somewhere? What I wouldn't give for a look at that!

    As for Maurice's question: I don't think a complete high resolution scan of the Phase II drawings have ever been released to the public.

    M.
     
  15. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Is there a good explanation why everyone assumes these vertical structures to be turbo shafts? :confused:

    Here is the basic Jefferies cross-section in color (schematic display on bridge). IMHO it's the different colors that make all the difference how to approximate a correct interpretation of Jefferies' black & white cross-section.

    If these red vertical lines were turbo shafts than the bridge would actually have to be a turbo lift depot by that reasoning.

    Also, there would be no horizontal turbo shafts aboard the ship by the same reasoning because these do not show up!

    These rather look like main (power) lines (with smaller horizontal connections not shown) and though I'm not a big supporter of retroactive continuity, I think Andrew Probert is among the few who actually got it correct by placing a vertical intermix shaft there for the TMP Enterprise.

    Bob
     
  16. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    Question about the Phase 2 drawing - why is the distance between the 442 and 450 marks greater than the 450 and 478 marks at the bottom?
     
  17. Shaw

    Shaw Commodore Commodore

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    A quick review of the history of the Enterprise design…

    Roddenberry had started Jefferies out designing a smaller version of the Enterprise at the end of the summer of 1964. Jefferies had put a ton of work into both plans for the miniatures and graphics that would end up on the bridge displays.

    In mid October of 1964 Roddenbery changed his mind and asked for the Enterprise to be bigger (and have some more details). This had Jefferies scrambling just to finish the plans for the miniatures, and actually forced Datin to start construction on the 33 inch model using the plans for the smaller scale Enterprise with notations written on them of what not to build so he could get started.

    [​IMG]

    The final plans of the Enterprise at the new scale were finished on November 7, 1964, after Datin had farmed out the construction of some of the parts for the 33 inch model… which is why the contours of the 33 inch model differ from the 11 foot model.

    But the graphics on the bridge remained unchanged in The Cage and were never updated for the series. And they didn't need to be. Early in production people were watching the finished product as 35mm film, by the time they got to see what Star Trek looked like on actual TV sets they realized that they didn't need to worry as much about the smaller details. The turbolift graphic is one from before the Enterprise was rescaled, and wasn't intended to do anything other than sorta show where the bridge was and how it connected to the rest of the Enterprise via a turbolift.

    The only cross section that Jefferies released was a small drawing (drawn on an 8.5 x 11 sheet) for the writers guides. And as MGagen pointed out, it matches up pretty nicely with what he drew for Phase II…

    [​IMG]



    The 450 mark was misplaced… the other two are correct.
     
  18. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    It stands to reason that the bridge was envisioned to be connected to a vertical turbo lift because a) of the cylinder at the exterior of the bridge on the VFX models and b) because there is an optional turbo lift spot on the Season One studio set blueprints at the end of the "Jefferies tube corridor" that would roughly match such a vertical turbo shaft - the only problem is that there is not one TOS episode that ever revealed one of these corridors to have a turbo lift access at this optional spot.

    For all we know the casing of this vertical bridge turboshaft could have included all the power lines connecting the bridge and the upper dome to the one below.

    Main power lines could split up into smaller and multiple horizontal lines, too small to be displayed on the schematic in the bridge alcove - a turbo lift can not!

    If the vertical structures on the bridge alcove schematic (which does have a top view) are turbo lifts, than there are only four turbo shafts aboard he TOS Enterprise and our protagonists would have to walk to the next vertical shaft - which they apparently hardly ever do in TOS.

    And it's somewhat odd that out of these four vertical turbo shafts, two are exclusively devoted to reach the nacelles, although we never saw that happening in any TOS episode, either.

    In short, it's possible that Matt Jefferies originally envisioned these structures to be turbo shafts, but the actual turbo lift rides we saw suggest something completely different, IMO.

    Bob
     
  19. MGagen

    MGagen Captain Captain

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    As Shaw pointed out, the bridge alcove diagram is of an earlier version of the ship. Do not place too much stock in it. As for why there are no horizontal turbo paths evident on the cross section in TMOST? The answer is simple: none of them fall along the centerline of the ship. The bridge turbo tube, as is evident from the outside of the model, IS on the center line.

    Shaw,

    Datin confirmed to me that both the small model and the eleven footer were constructed from the same plan. He told me the earlier version was what he quoted from, but it wasn't used during construction. I do not know why the contours came out so different between the models.

    I also asked whether the blueprint had a flat underside around the bottom edge of the saucer, or whether it was a continuous curve, like the 11 footer. I never got a clear answer to that one. :confused:

    M.
     
  20. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Two things.

    Are we ever going to see the original construction plans surface for us to drool over?

    I'd love to see the original drawing (or a good reproduction) of the drawing(s) reprinted in The Making Of Star Trek, particularly the Enterprise cross-section.