Photo request -- Enterprise hangar deck studio miniature

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by Professor Moriarty, Aug 13, 2007.

  1. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not making any assumptions. I'm just putting these images together as a point of discussion.

    As to the hangar doors, I pointed this out in the post. I must assume you just looked at the pictures.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2013
  2. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Please, I'm not trying to be confrontational or personal. This is interesting, and I'd like to explore the question more fully. It looks to me like if we disregard the dimensions of the doors in the profile cutaway, then the rest of the bay as shown could be a somewhat closer fit. That's my hypothesis; now I'd be interested to see you test it so we'll know whether it's right or wrong.
     
  3. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    The single very long & comprehensive interview with FJ that I have read, which was in ENTERPRISE INCIDENTS magazine, indicates everything he did that wasn't whole cloth invention derived from hours and hour and hours of studying film clips ... I don't think he mentions the drawing in TMOST at all (and I thought years back that everybody had declared the line drawings in that book as invalid, though I can't point to anything other than memory.)

    I don't know if there are other particulars that interview might shed light upon, but it is definitely in the EI all interviews issue, plus I guess a previous one as well.
     
  4. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    Well, it's obvious from inspection that FJ gobbled up TMOST as a research source, including photos, drawings, and text. Just to cite one example, the bottom of FJ's secondary hull shows the curve of MJ's drawings, which is not present on the 11-footer. FJ didn't trace MJ's diagrams, but it's beyond question that he looked at them.
     
  5. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    "Then [FJ's daughter] Karen got a set of the...they're called the "Enterprise drawing set" at Lincoln Enterprises...you know, the famous three-view and the cutaway, and other things from Stephen Whitfield's book; and the drawing of the hangar deck...and I think there was also a drawing of the shuttlecraft. From these sketches and those in Whitfield's book, I then laid out...those drawings were bad, they're out of scale...but I laid the drawing out, scaled and sized it, and made a drawing of the Enterprise. Next I devised the Dreadnought, made a drawing of one of the uniforms, and about twelve drawings in all. They were drawn on the format I'd already devised for the Technical Orders. I sent a copy of the T.O.'s for the Dreadnought and the Enterprise to Gene Roddenberry on June 3rd, told him what I was doing, and inquired about proprietary rights."

    The old Enterprise Incidents article is here

    http://www.trekplace.com/fj-fjnewittint01.html
     
  6. Ambassador Petri

    Ambassador Petri Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Happened to find this thread while googling for shuttlebay pictures, so let me put an end to the speculation - the two close-up color "photos" of the sides of the shuttlebay are definitely from my shuttlebay rendering for William McCullars' article about TOS filming miniatures in Star Trek Communicator #133, published in 2001. I didn't know it had been used anywhere else.

    It was a pretty good recreation, but by no means perfect, as this debate illustrates. :)

    Petri Blomqvist
     
  7. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    But an outstanding accomplishment I must add, thanks for the clarification. :techman:

    What kind of reference materials did you use for the CGI rendering?
    Your "fueling station" nozzles look pretty much like the real thing in these rare black & white photos of the original miniature.

    And Alchemist said he had a high resolution camera negative scan suggesting the text above the nozzles to be "fueling station". How did you figure this one out?

    I'm also relieved that Mr. Datin is no longer under suspicion for "misremembering" or senility. I'd say the quest to find original photpgraphs with the original text signs goes on.

    Bob
     
  8. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So, Petri, any other or better quality photos of this model?
     
  9. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    My compliments to Petri Blomqvist on a build that I guessed was either the real deal or the work of Greg Jein.

    And I tip my hat to Robert Comsol. You called it from the start. :)
     
  10. Redfern

    Redfern Commodore Commodore

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    Now he'll be impossible to live with. ;)

    Sincerely,

    Bill
     
  11. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    I had hoped that my reaction to Petri Blomqvist's clarification suggested otherwise. :rolleyes:

    By the way, Mr. Blomqvist is the gentleman who provided essential CGI reproductions for the TOS remastering (which obviously required a lot of talent and we saw here how good he is).

    Bob
     
  12. Redfern

    Redfern Commodore Commodore

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    Odd, I placed a winking emoticon as the end of my comment to hopefully illustrate I was posting thoroughly "tongue in cheek". Does it not display on your end? It appears upon my display.

    Sincerely,

    Bill
     
  13. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    I got it but just couldn't resist the temptation to use your comment as an opportunity to express myself. :)

    Bob
     
  14. Professor Moriarty

    Professor Moriarty Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Boy, I step out for a six-year smoke break and all heck breaks loose! :guffaw:

    Thank you Ambassador Petri for clearing up that mystery, and thanks for your inspiring CGI work back in the early 2000's which got me into this maddening hobby. :cool:
     
  15. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
    Say, I did think I saw you standing out back on the other side of the loading dock. :rommie:
     
  16. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Pics! I wanna see more pics! Puhlease!!!
     
  17. Professor Moriarty

    Professor Moriarty Vice Admiral Admiral

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    After 47 years I'm afraid the treasure trove of heretofore unseen photographs from the original series is vanishingly small, if not non-existent. But ya never know...!
     
  18. MGagen

    MGagen Captain Captain

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    Hi, guys. Sorry to come back so late to this "revivified" thread.

    First, I'm glad to have Petri confirm that he is the source of the color hangar shots from the ST Communicator article. Often things are run in magazines without proper captions or attribution.

    Here's what I know about the model and the drawings.

    I am the source of the idea that the TMOST drawings are of the forced perspective set. I had pored over them for years before I finally noticed that they do indeed have forced perspective details. If you distort these back out of it, you end up with something that is much closer to fitting in the available space. But keep in mind that MJ didn't have CAD modeling tools and a personal computer with Photoshop. Don't expect it to come out perfectly when you warp it back into shape.

    My theory about the drawings was that they found their way into the writers guide (and then into TMOST) as the real thing, rather than the set.

    Later I corresponded with Richard Datin on the subject and he assured me that the miniature set (which he built) did not have forced perspective features. He said the walls were cylindrical.

    I still maintain that the TMOST drawing is not the "real" hangar bay, but an early set concept; but the plans changed before construction. Later, they likely needed an illustration of the hangar for the writers guide and that one was ready to hand. One thing we KNOW they didn't have was an abundance of was extra time. It was good enough.

    If you want to see what Jefferies really meant the hangar to be, look to his Phase II cross section. That is a real, scale drawing; and it is much shorter front to back and has galleries that are parallel with the deck and don't diminish in size as they go aft.

    [​IMG]

    As for my virtual model, I really had to shoe-horn it in but I managed to make it fit in a way that looks pretty much like what we saw on screen. But as was mentioned up thread, you have to use a wide angle lens, and place the camera outside the forward bulkhead looking into the space to get the same view. In my version, the profile of the interior is cylindrical. This gives us more space behind the forward pocket doors. There is just enough space to have a room similar to the one visible in BABEL when the honor guard greets Sarek and Amanda (although you have to place the camera outside the hull of the ship to get the right angle). There is also just enough room behind the inner wall below the control booths for a curving ladder to ascend up into the booths. Here is a perspective cutaway view of my hangar (not finished yet in this image). The amount of space shown between the exterior and the interior at the top is the same that is available at the sides. You can also see into the port observation gallery to the view ports seen in COTK, and part of the port pylon interior structural support can be seen in the forward gallery:

    [​IMG]

    That's my 2 cents. Your mileage, of course, may vary...

    M.
     
  19. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    I'm amazed it wasn't forced perspective, just due to depth of field issues with the low speed stocks used. Would love to know how they lit this thing, the model must have been seriously baked.
     
  20. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    @ MGagen

    That's a beautiful cross-section you are sharing with us, thanks!

    But I notice that you made the ceiling beams parallel to the flight deck rather than to align these with the outer hull.

    Two of these magnificient five original shots you thankfully provided suggest that also on the model the ceiling beams were angled:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Apparently the angle of the ceiling beams wouldn't match the back of the ship "in-universe" but given the choice to either make them parallel to the exterior hull or the flight deck, what was your motivation to make these parallel to the flight deck?

    Bob