Perfect example of what they SHOULD have done with the TNG-R FX

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by Ian Keldon, Aug 23, 2012.

  1. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Walking distance from Starfleet HQ
    The original battelcruiser was designed to evoke a manta ray (just look at the main fuselage), and that sea-animal aspect to it was forgotten in later ships. The BOP at least has some lines that evoke the original battlecruiser and the K'tinga. The Vorcha suffers from a common problem with later ships: a cross section that's basically octagonal, so it's got really only one interesting sihouette (from above) and from the side it looks like a series of stacked boxes. Beveled edges don't make it interesting. It's a problem it shares with the Cardassian ship. Hell, it resembles the Cardassian ship so much it looks like someone flipped that around and stuck nacelles on it.
     
  2. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2001
    Location:
    Sac, Ca
    I thought the BoP looked plenty elegant, especially when those long wings would be angled upward slightly.

    I will say that it never looked quite as good in TNG as in the movies though. It was shot way too static, without any of those cool swooping shots that we saw in TSFS or TVH.
     
  3. Captain Fine

    Captain Fine Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2002
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    Personally I think the BOP is a great design. But then I also like the Negh'Var, D'deridex and Valdore-style ships.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Now, the Valdore-type ship (designed by John Eaves) is kind of nice -- except that I think it looks more Klingon than Romulan, and in fact would be a better Klingon ship design than just about anything we've gotten post-1979.
     
  5. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    While I agree with you that the K'Tinga class ship is a terrific design, even if it was scaled to its normal dimensions, it would have been no match for the Enterprise-D. The whole reason they had to upscale the BoPs to ridiculous dimensions was so that the Ent-D had an equally-sized adversary to fight. Unfortunately they had no corresponding model at the time (although I suppose they could have used that Planet of the Creeps/Promellian ship painted green like they eventually did in DS9...when scaled to the station, it was huge...)
     
  6. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Location:
    A Long Time Ago...
    Hey Christopher, Here's a Klingon ship you may like. One of the best fan designs ever created and it's a physical model to boot!
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    ^Sorry, no, I don't care for it at all. Not very graceful contours. And why is it that all Klingon ships from the BoP onward have had to be that sickly olive green? I prefer the battleship gray of the D-7 and K'tinga.

    To Dukhat: Okay, the K'ts are smaller than the E-D, but I think three of them could've been a match for it -- well, at least for the Prime-universe version, though I assume the YE version was more heavily armed and armored. At the very least, it wouldn't have been quite as ridiculous a scale mismatch as using the BoP.
     
  8. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2001
    Location:
    Sac, Ca
    Seems like the Ent-D being twice the size of the original Enterprise is something that was written once, early on, in the series bible.... and then immediately forgotten as production began on the actual series. Lol

    I mean, was there ever any shot that showed the ship being much larger than other established ships? I can't think of one. Even the Bozeman/Reliant from Cause and Effect was twice as big as it should be.

    Seems like the only time they got the scale right was with the Excelsior model, but that was probably just by accident.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2012
  9. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Hmh? The E-D dwarfs basically every alien design thrown against it, save for the Tamarian vessel and Q's spatial chainmail. "Enemy looming above the heroes" is a classic pose from the TOS movies and DS9, but in TNG, it's always the E-D that looms.

    Only fellow Starfleet vessels appear to be of the same size, aren't positioned basically beneath the saucer in a standoff, and tend to fly side by side with the hero vessel for effect.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  10. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2001
    Location:
    Sac, Ca
    Well yeah, but I'm sure they would have had the Ent-D looming over those ships anyway, since most of those aliens were established as being not quite as technologically advanced.

    Or they were piloting cargo ships, scout vessels, or small transports.
     
  11. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Location:
    A Long Time Ago...
    HUH??? Not very graceful?? Did we look at the same ship? That thing is a piece of art. (ok, yeah, the color may be a bit overused in modern trek, but that's easily changeable)
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    No accounting for taste. I just don't like the shape of the "head" and neck.
     
  13. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Walking distance from Starfleet HQ
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Looks gray to me in that shot, and in the others I've seen.
     
  15. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Per Ardua
    I'm not really impressed with the design either (model work is great), reminds more of something the Cardassians would build.
     
  16. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Walking distance from Starfleet HQ
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  17. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2001
    Location:
    Kansas City
    To be fair it's a very gray green.
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Yes, it's a very different and much subtler shade than the one that became standard from the BoP onward. Not all greens are created equal. Green is actually my favorite color; that's why the heroine of my upcoming novel is named Emerald and is wearing a green top and boots on the cover. But some shades of green look nice and others look ugly. I don't like "Klingon-ship green."
     
  19. TommyR01D

    TommyR01D Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    Location:
    UK
    What makes a young person's moaning any better or worse than an old person's moaning. What age you are is not the deciding factor in the validity of your opinion. The fact is, older people are used to model shots rather than that newfangled computer stuff, and younger people are accustomed to CG effects instead of that stupid old rubbish.
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    ^It's not that simple, because not all CGI is alike. CGI can be great if it's got enough time and money and talent going into it; for instance, I found the virtual sets and scenery and creatures in Andrew Stanton's John Carter to be pretty much flawless and stunning. But it's not at all easy to get CGI to look realistic, and if the time or money or talent isn't there, the results are not going to look as good as a well-done model shot. (And part of the reason JC's effects looked so good is that Stanton shot them as if they were live action, with restrained, physically believable camera moves, rather than the showy swooping about that makes so many CG shots look self-conscious and fake.)

    In general, it's foolish to think a single technique is right for everything. The smart approach to visual effects is to make use of all the available tools in the kit, and pick the right tool for each job. There are still jobs for which miniatures work better than CGI -- which is why the CGI-laden Lord of the Rings trilogy made extensive use of miniatures for cities like Minas Tirith (not to mention full-size physical sets for a lot of things that most productions would fake with miniatures or CG). One of the ways CGI can be misused is relying on it too exclusively, using it for shots that can be more effectively done with a different technique.