Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Yminale, Jul 9, 2013.

  1. Pingfah

    Pingfah Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Personally I would like to say that all his books should be banned, the film should be destroyed, and he should be legally prevented from ever publishing again. Because that is the only way half the bullshit strawman arguments in this thread will ever be valid or relevant.
     
  2. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Wow, what a thoughtful contribution to the discussion.

    I agree. I'm a fan of his and even I don't particularly care to hear his views on where men can or can't stick their willies, nor do I understand why he devotes such time to a cause. If he at least wrote his intolerance as a well-written allegorical sci-fi story, I'd be more likely see pay attention.

    Alright.
     
  3. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    :barf:

    Horrendous generalities, but here it is: Sci-fi, being principally interested in understanding the present to speculate about the future, is intrinsically progressive (even tho there is a strong libertarian bend in many contemporary sci-fi works). Fantasy, on the other hand, being about an imaginary past with a strong emphasis on traditional values, is habitually conservative.
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, whatever you think of the man, he was likely pressured by the studio to say something to try to mitigate the damage his views could do to the film.
     
  5. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    To further generalise, the fantasy genre is less political in nature than science-fiction. Tolkien wasn't trying to make any social commentary or critique when he wrote The Lord of the Rings, whereas Frank Herbert certainly was when he made the closest thing to a sci-fi equivalent, Dune.
     
  6. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Sure, but how about if you swap out Tolkein with Narnia? We can cherry pick authors to make it sway whichever way we want.
     
  7. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm a huge admirer of both Tolkien and Lewis, neither were politically charged writers. Sci-fi literature is frequently about the human condition or social critique in a way the fantasy genre isn't usually. It's one of the things I find preferable about fantasy, it works better as escapism. It's harder to escape in to a book if you find it makes you think about what's going in in your own country.
     
  8. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Narnia is totally pushing a Religious Agenda in a Political way?
     
  9. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Broadly, in the same way Tolkien's work broadly pushes an anti-industrial agenda in a political way. It's far less overt than science-fiction though, and they work primarily as adventure escapism. Tolkien and Lewis were not allegorical writers, and sci-fi is a genre that works heavy with allegory.
     
  10. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not in a political way, but I found the religious subtext of the Narnia books rendered reading them more of a nuisance than a pleasure. Lewis was not exactly the theological deep thinker that his fans took him for. :lol:
     
  11. TemporalFlux

    TemporalFlux Commodore Commodore

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    The amount of absolute hatred for Orson Scott Card astonishes me. This is the response to hatred? Greater hatred? I have rarely seen such a vicious crusade against one man.
     
  12. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

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    The amount of absolute hatred from Orson Scott Card astonishes me. The response to his hatred? Not giving him any of my money. I have rarely seen such a vicious crusade by one man against a minority group.
     
  13. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    The hell he wasn't. He unarguably wrote in allegorical terms (whatever he says himself: he apparently thought he was too good for allegory.)
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2013
  14. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    speech is not persecution. I am also extremely uncomfortable with laws against "hate speech." Well-intentioned as they may be, putting government in the role of censor is wrong. Also, "offense" is so subjective that they become hard to enforce.
     
  15. theenglish

    theenglish Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I agree with this as well. There have been several controversial examples in Canada over the years of heavy handedness in applying the law. I apparently missed the point of several posts and was not clear what I was responding to.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2013
  16. sidious618

    sidious618 Admiral Admiral

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    What?! What hate? No one is saying he should die or be locked up or beaten. They're just saying his views are hateful and that they prefer not to give him any money.
     
  17. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Where are you seeing this Greater hatred, please point to it.

    His hate speech has advocated imprisoning people for being Gay (so they don't infect others with their Gayness) and overthrowing the Government if they grant us equal rights, which are Constitutionally protected, No one is issuing Death Threats, nor suggesting any kind of violence or imprisonment or taking away his right to spew his hatred.

    We are simply refusing to put money into the pocket of a man who will turn around and use that money to commit a political Holy War against us. How is that greater hatred than advocating imprisonment because he doesn't approve of who you sleep with?

    A Fundamentalist Christian like himself, might even say we are lovingly trying to guide him into the light, by showing him the consequences of spewing his hatred.
     
  18. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

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    sonak: speech can be persecution. if you were a gay person in a non gay-friendly area and had people shouting abuse at you every day for being gay, i think that would count.

    theeenglish: you need to take out the other guy's quote = bit when quoting as this currently makes it look like i said what sonak did. seems to happen sometimes.
     
  19. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I hope you condemn him for the same reasons. You want to see a vicious crusade, look at those who don't want gay to get married. It's pretty vicious.

    Me? I'm not wanting to take his rights away (like he wants to do, or certain prevent people from enjoying rights). I just don't want him to have any of my money.

    And that's vicious? :wtf:

    It's a lovely false equivalency you've created here...

    1. No one is saying Card can't do or write what he wants. Just like the funk and hip hop artists you CHOOSE to buy.

    2. I don't recall any of those funk or hip-hop artists creating organizations that ACTIVELY seek to create legislation to make us all live on coke and assault people. They are expressing their lives. Just as Card does.

    3. Wagner was dead almost 50 years before Hitler came to power.

    Again, it's not JUST his opinion... it's that he's a BOARD member of an organization trying to stop equal rights. His money goes into that organization. Which he is free to do. As I am free not to give him one penny of my money.
     
  20. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, he wasn't. Lewis' Trilemma is about a deep as Pascal's Wager, which is to say that they're both about as deep as a puddle and just as (in)significant.

    Mere Christianity and The Screwtape Letters are readable and I enjoy them, but Lewis' Christianity strikes me as a fuzzy, Christ-free Christianity that's more about being good and doing good than about the difficult stuff like redemption and metaphysics.

    In short, he probably favored the heresy of Pelagius than the orthodoxy of Augustine, which is why his embrace by the "fire and brimstone" evangelicals has never made any sense to me because they wouldn't recognize his theology and he wouldn't recognize them as Christian.