Orson Scott Card "Please don't boycott my film!"

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Yminale, Jul 9, 2013.

  1. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Not really. If the movie bombs, and it's believed it's due to his horrific prejudicial statements, it's unlikely he'll make another sale of rights for another movie. Continued business is at least as important as today's paycheck. If the movie does well enough, it could warrant sequels and he could be getting the same paycheck 5 times over the next 10 years. If it bombs, he could easily lose those future paydays

    Yes, if it bombs, it's a shame for those who worked on the picture that don't share his views, but, that's the price of doing business with the devil, it rubs off on you. But, as I mentioned before, the controversy could very well draw millions into the movie out of curiousity (That maybe wouldn't have been interested if it wasn't for the extra press flare up) and could be the thing that puts the movie over the top
     
  2. Pingfah

    Pingfah Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Really this is all nonsense, you have no idea at all who would or wouldn't have seen the film, and these two absurdly specific sample types of moviegoer are far from the only possibilities in terms of who is going to purposefully not see this film.

    Whether they have read the book or not has nothing to do with it, the book itself has nothing to do with it. You don't need to have read the book to be aware of Card's views and activities, nor to want to see the film, nor to want to avoid it.
     
  3. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It gains the highest grossing box-office weekend of all-time due to everybody wanting to see this shocking anti-gay movie people are talking about. Then audiences sit baffled as they are greeted by a military sci-fi story about a child.
     
  4. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Well, if people really do form picket lines outside theatres like it was suggested earlier in the thread, than, yeah, I could see that actually helping the movie. That's going to draw media attention, people watching the news/reading the paper/whatever their preferred news delivery method is are going to see people forming picket lines trying to discourage others from seeing Ender's Game. Average Joe who knows nothing about Card or Ender's Game will be all "one movie's causing all this commotion? Guess I know what I'm doing this weekend."
     
  5. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    A bit off topic, but it's an interesting diversion for me.

    Progressivism, in its general meaning, is a political phylosophy that concern itself with the possibility and the opportunity of progress and change in society, be it social or economical, especially through technological advancements and the expansion of rights. By this definition, it is pretty much intrinsically intertwined with the basics of science fiction, which postulates that, for good or bad, the future will be different from the present, and the past.

    It is worth nothing, as I said above, that not all progressive thinking is exactly the same. The only underlying factor is the possibility of change in society.

    Heinlein's fascination with the military might not fit with the current brand of liberal progressivism, but it's far from general. Communist leaders thought themselves the ultimate progressives, but they were also militant, aggressive, and warlike.

    Conservative thought, historically speaking, has very little to do with the uses and extent of government power. By definition, it promotes holding to traditional social institutions and roles, and opposes changes in society as destabilizing and dangerous.

    You are looking at this from a very American and very narrow point of view, which is understandable, but very unfortunate.


    If bigots will learn to keep their mouth shut about their bigoted views for fear of being shunned by the decent people, the world will be a better place.

    So you "don't care" about Card denying gay people their basic rights, advocating their incarceration in camps, and even threatening armed rebellion against the government if it doesn't play along with his bigoted views, but it "terrifies" you that people speak against him and choose not to give him money.

    That's a... peculiar point of view and I think it tells us what are your priorities.

    I guess it's because Ender's Game apparently strikes close to a lot of people's heart, and I think this is the reason for that:

     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2013
  6. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Norf Remembers Moderator

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    Again, who has said that the movie itself is anti-gay? Jesus, you're obtuse.
     
  7. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    For the record, I can't stand the Political machine of either the Republicans or The Democrats, they're all a bunch of crooks, there is almost difference between them, and they lie constantly, and don't serve their constituents, but, serve their donors. The true meaning of a Bi-Partisan Bill is that donors on both sides of the aisle get free candy.

    As far as being liberal, I get chewed up on "liberal" sites for my views, and my views are accepted far more amongst Conservatives (That aren't anti-Gay) and Libertarians. So, I'm not sure where this "liberal fantasy" thing comes

    I have seen the trailers and I have read the synopsis, they don't appeal to me, and Card's views cement my decision to not see the movie. if it wasn't for his attempts at trying to curtail my rights (And people like him being responsible for a high percentage of Teen suicides due to their "Loving attempts to show them the way out of Gayness". Which fortunately has gone down some as more people are now accepting of Gays, so Gay teens have more resources to know how despicable that kind of "love" really is) I would be more open to be convinced there is merit in the movie, so, no, I am not ignorant and just avoiding the movie because of his views, and it needn't have been that I stayed away because of the trailers.

    I've read SRD Covenant Chronicles, The Gap Cycle and Mordant's Need (Despite the absolute chore of getting through the first book of The Gap Cycle due to the abuse, which was far, far worse, then the rape in Lord Foul's bane, which caused me to put the book down twice before I finally read past it). If SRD promoted Rape or abuse of women, then I wouldn't have pushed on. SRD is an awesome writer, very descriptive, excellent with the Human Condition and putting ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances.

    So, it's a combination of all things, and an informed decision that I made, not a decision that was forced upon me by "The liberal Agenda"
     
  8. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'd rather be obtuse than constantly look for reasons to be upset :lol:. We've already had a poster in this thread state Ender's Game is anti-gay, and that the enemy alien race are a stand-in for homosexuals. We've also had somebody link to an article they praise, in which Ender's Game is stated to be based on the life of Adolph Hitler. These things strike me as absurd.

    :beer:

    :beer:

    I wasn't referring to you. Your argument and decision makes sense.
     
  9. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Not really, it's worlds of difference. Firing someone for their political views is illegal. Making a choice not to support the work of someone who's political beliefs disagree with yours is legal and an integral part of Capitalism
     
  10. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think progressivism is about positive change, not change in general. Therefore, more pessimistic sci-fi, like dystopian sci-fi, wouldn't necessarily be "progressive." This would especially be the case if the purpose of the story was to show something like how a collapse in respect for traditional institutions like the Military or the Church contributed toward a disastrous future.
     
  11. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Dystopian sci-fi almost always centres on social commentary, and said social commentary could push a "progressive" viewpoint.

    Though I dislike the term "progressive" in a political context as it is entirely subjective regarding what the progress is, at what point we're progressing from, and where the progress leads to. I find most people that identify themselves as simply "progressive" have no real political convictions beyond the broad desire for change. Ask for their own views on what kind of economic systems should be placed in substitute of the ones we have, and you'll often be left with silence.
     
  12. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    It's true many Progressives have good intentions, and truly believe their suggested change is for a positive future, but, that doesn't automatically make the result positive, it's just as likely that Progressive was wrong and the idea was bad. It also doesn't account for "Anything but this, something has to be done" Progressives who slap something together that can become the worst solution possible.

    So, yea, Progressive means inclined towards change, although there is hope the change will be good, being good isn't necessarily an attribute of Progressivism.
     
  13. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I was going to address that in my reply, but thought it was too off-topic. I'll just say that I totally agree, and that being left-wing myself, I'm deeply annoyed that liberals(which, if you assume they mean "social liberal" actually has real meaning and tends to be connected to specific policies) started to refer to themselves as "progressive," which is a much more empty term, and as you wrote, meaning progress toward what?
     
  14. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I have some leftist beliefs but am much more of a libertarian. Way too nihilistic to be a liberal. And before people ask "How can you like Star Trek if you're not one of us?", I'm also obsessed with The Lord of the Rings but I don't believe we should have a monarchy ;). I fucking love TNG, but don't think such a world is particularly achievable.
     
  15. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

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    the majority of people that said they don't want to see the film because they don't want to give card money because of his viewpoint. not because of these reasons that only you keep bringing up. it is a valid reason for not going to see the film, not some liberal agenda tantamount to censorship. this is capitalism in action.

    this has been said many times over and over. please stop coming back with statements that address different arguements.
     
  16. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Norf Remembers Moderator

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    One guy on the first(?) page got confused because "bugger" can be slang for sodomy. Get over it already. It's not indicative of the tone of the arguments here.

    Have people used the Ender/Hitler comparison in the article as justification for saying they're avoiding the movie, or have they argued that they're doing it because of Card's views and actions? Even the person who posted the article didn't use that as a reason not to see the movie.

    Move the fuck on and find a new argument.
     
  17. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I genuinely don't get why you keep hectoring me. I did move on, pages ago. You keep replying to unrelated posts and dragging this stuff up.
     
  18. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

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    moving on is not coming up with answers to questions no one asked.
     
  19. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No idea what this means, but alright.
     
  20. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Norf Remembers Moderator

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    It's my Achilles' heel.

    Ba dum cha. I'll be here all week, folks. Try the veal.

    No one's bullying you, just like no one's bullying Card. The reactions you're getting are entirely of your own making. I believe personal responsibility is one of those supposed conservative tenets, is it not?

    (oops, I dropped the "c-word" again, so that's twice for me, about 50 or so times for you and "liberal")

    What? You just brought it up again in the damn post. What delusional fairytale conversations are you carrying on?