Orphan Black kept my Attention.

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Guy Gardener, Mar 31, 2013.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    My real problem is that when someone says "20 years ago" is that I always just assume that they're talking about 1972.

    I am so fricking old.
     
  2. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Location:
    Chicago IL

    My problem too :bolian:

    And thanks for the info...so what they did was technically legal....but they were anticipating some legal restrictions, so they left their DNA message for the future....very clever writing.

    Now, I haven't seen all the episodes... but do the DNA variations actually change much of the clone (i.e. hair color, eye color, sexual orientation - which is supposed to be something you're born with)?
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    I think they have identical DNA except for the "Titledeed" sewn in. Of course, after they were created equally, the experimenting done by these mad scientists, means that what is afflicted on each cone to satisfy whatever ongoing experiment is different and although might rot and break down their dna, it's unlikely to "change" their specific DNA into different healthy dna.

    Giving all the clones different diseases/poisons is the only reason that you would need identiacal people as (lab)cows, by examining how the same person dies in a different 100 ways.

    Coughing blood is a vague symptom.
     
  4. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Location:
    Langley
    So?

    Kidnap one off the street and it's a missing person case until a body is found. Destroy the body and she's not even legally deceased until she's been missing seven years (United States). The only way a bystander would immediately know something serious is going on is if they knew there was more than one clone. And if that person is a monitor, and the one considered most likely to file that missing person report... :shrug:

    Like i said, you're not thinking deviously enough.
     
  5. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Location:
    A Long Time Ago...
    Maybe so, but it seems a silly way to run a production line. If the intended purpose was just to harvest organs I doubt the clones would have been released into society in the first place. More likely you'd have a setup like The Island.
     
  6. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Location:
    Langley
    Yes IF organ production were the intended purpose.

    (Try to actually pay attention to what i'm writing, sojourner, because you're only confusing yourself.)

    I only offered the organ scheme as a way to defend the patent imprinted in the clones' DNA without presenting the actual clone in court, which - for the third time - is the only question I'm trying to answer. I don't know if mass producing replacement organs is the ultimate goal. Nobody will know what the ultimate goal is until the writers decide to tell us.
     
  7. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2005
    I think it's more likely these clones are a "test batch". Maybe or maybe not the first batch, but sort of a beta test group, just to see how finely they can control the characteristics.

    Hell, maybe they even implanted behavioral tendencies, hence a greater need for the monitors.
     
  8. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Location:
    A Long Time Ago...
    Yes, I HAVE been paying attention. You've just made a circular argument.

    If the only way to defend the patent is to serendipitously get an organ into court without introducing the clone it came from you STILL end up with an unenforceable patent because your only source of further organs is illegal. It's baseless and futile.

    And the best part is, now you've committed murder along with illegal cloning, adding another charge if your scheme is ever found out.

    (Try to pay attention to the big picture, your only confusing yourself):rolleyes:
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    After what they've done, it won't be hard to grow clones with no brains, or tiny brains or brain dead clones kept alive in bacta tanks.

    What did the Doctor's see "inside" Kira that freaked them out?
     
  10. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2011
    The last post reminded me of a movie I remember seeing. "The Resurrection of Zachary Wheeler". Made over 40 years ago, there were clones made for future organ harvesting. Funny how it all comes around again.
     
  11. Mister Fandango

    Mister Fandango Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2012
    Why would an organization espousing the ideas of neolution just want a bunch of cloned organs anyway? It's a silly idea and has nothing to do with this show whatsoever.

    The clones are clearly an experiment in fiddling with DNA and possibly engineering more than human humans. Again, Kira's wholly unrealistic (both in reality and within the show) resilience to being struck by a car is testimony to that, and she's just half of a clone as far as we know (since there hasn't been any confirmation on who her father is). The clones themselves have shown similar healing abilities, as evident in how easily Helena took having a large piece of iron shoved into her stomach and how quickly she recovered from it.

    And as Guy wisely pointed out, if they were just interested in harvesting organs they wouldn't have given them a fully functional brain nor released them out into the world to see how they adapted to real life. There'd be absolutely no point in doing so.
     
  12. Admiral2

    Admiral2 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Location:
    Langley
    Only if the participants in the litigation KNOW a full human clone is the source of the organ instead of just an incubator, which is the point of destroying the clone's carcass, you dumb shit.

    And the only way for anybody to find out is with a dead body displaying evidence of foul play, which is the second reason to destroy the clone's carcass! And agents of the company have already committed murder! Why would they be afraid to knock off a couple of dolls they already consider property?

    That, BTW, is what frightened Cosima. She gets it, and it isn't hard to figure out if you stop thinking about it like an OB viewer that already knows about the clones and start thinking like a law-breaking organization hiding the fact from people who don't. The patent is there to protect every step of the cloning process. If another genetics lab uses part of that process to develop some other product, all you need is a sample of DNA created with that process to enforce your ownership in a civil court. You can lie your ass off about how you obtained that sample as long as there is no evidence to contradict you. The steps necessary to eliminate the evidence would be patently illegal, but you're already committing crimes! Why should committing more crimes phase you?

    My argument isn't circular. It's just not from the persepective of a law-abiding citizen who assumes - contrary to what we've seen in the show - everybody else knows what's going on.
     
  13. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Location:
    A Long Time Ago...
    And it goes right back to the source of the issue that they (the clones) are afraid of somehow being owned by the company. Which they can't. You've jumped through hoops to get this patent into court for no end. The company can still not own the clones. They could give a rats ass about the patent itself or a single organ being introduced. They're worried about being deemed property.

    What good is the patent without a means to procure a steady supply of the product?

    Oh, and when you quoted me above you obviously failed to comprehend the "if your scheme is ever found out" part.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2013
  14. Neroon

    Neroon Mod of Balance Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2000
    Location:
    On my ship the Rocinante
    Infraction for flaming. Comments to PM
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    I don't get why if the doctors saw something in Kira which appears to be an object nothing is ever said?

    [​IMG]

    If Clone HQ didn't know Kira existed who put it in there?

    Was some kind of alarm triggered and the doctors told any medical information was not to be revealed to the parents?

    Or is this some object from the car that they then remove and we don't see them telling Sarah about it? And it's supposed to be "how amazing, she had this thing in her from the accident and she is fine now."
     
  16. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area, CA
    For those who might have missed it the first time around, BBC America is doing a Season 1 Encore of Orphan Black starting this weekend (Saturday Night). See, who I think at least, is the breakout actress of 2013. Season 2 returns in April and I can't wait.
     
  17. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2003
    Location:
    Chicago IL
    Did she get nominated for an Emmy? If not --she should!
     
  18. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area, CA
    No, which is probably the biggest snub (At least from what I read around the internets) at the show this year. Evidently she's been nominated and winning a lot of the other small awards, like the critics award and such.
     
  19. lurok

    lurok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Location:
    Lost in the EU expanse with a nice cup of tea
    This just premiered on BBC. Haven't read any of this thread or anything on web so have no spoilers, and watched it purely on strength of intriguing title. Initial impressions:

    * beautifully shot and directed
    * intriguing premise (the suicide/doppelganger thing; felt a bit 'Girls From Brazil')
    * the lead actress is quirkily attractive and a pretty decent lead
    * I was always love trying to guess shows that aren't obviously UK or US; Aussie? NZ? Canadian? Finally went with Canuck, as end credits confirmed.

    I'm definitely interested in watching second part. Without spoiling, can anyone who's seen it say if it's worth continuing with, or will I just be disappointed?
     
  20. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area, CA
    Well, Orphan Black is tied with a Netflix Series as my top 2 shows of 2013, so it's definitely worth it.