Original or remastered effects?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by Melakon, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    Jarring? Jarring is going from immaculate live action scenes with nary a blemish or spot to original FX footage swathed in defects and overloaded with grain from being reused over and over again.

    It's the reason they did the new FX in the first place--they cleaned up the live action stuff and is just didn't fit with the filthy ,repetitive flybys covered in a grainstorm and riddled with defects that they couldn't clean up.

    Then CBS was smart enough to include the original stuff anyway so everybody could watch the version they prefer.

    Are we still at the point in 2013 where some folks are saying "I can't afford Blu-ray."

    They haven't sold a standard definition TV in 8 years and Blu-ray players are well under $80

    and somebody wants to know if they should buy the standard or 'remastered' DVDs?

    I was unaware they sell the remastered sets on DVD.

    Entire seasons? And if not why would someone just buy selected episodes of remastered in SD as opposed to entire seasons on DVD?

    I love the remastered, but if I had to choose between selected episodes in remaster or entire seasons in non remastered--I'd have to take whole seasons.

    I'm totally confused.
     
  2. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    It seems as if the FX team's favorite FX are always my least favorite FX. I, too, thought the FX for "Galileo 7" were aweful -- so bad, they're distracting.

    My advice to the OPer would be simply to wait until you have a bluray player and you can play the remastered episodes with either the original FX or the newer FX. That way, you get everything in HD and you can compare FX. I don't think there's really any benefit to getting the remastered episodes unless you can actually see them in HD. Yes, the live action is a little clearer, the colors pop more, but the slight benefit isn't worth the money, IMO, especially if you already have the series in standard definition. The best thing about the remastered episodes is the crystal clear HD, but you aren't going to even come close to that on DVD.

    EDIT: Sorry to be pedantic, but this is one of my pet peeves -- the new FX are not "remastered" FX. "Remastered" refers only to the original material; the new FX are the only parts of the series that haven't been remastered. When I watch TOS on bluray with the original FX, I'm still watching the remastered episodes. Yes, it bothers me that much, and, yes, I do need a life.
    Eighty bucks is still eighty bucks. Some people do actually have to prioritize, and food usualkly needs to come first before leisure.

    See my note on "remastered" above. TOS has actually been remastered a number of times.
     
  3. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, that's what I asked in the original post. Eighty dollars is a lot of money for me. My television can only pick up analog signals. And Blu-Ray films I've seen in stores average near $40. Not everyone has as much money to play with as you do. Thanks for the public ridicule.
     
  4. Kinokima

    Kinokima Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Don't worry I don't have a Blu-Ray player either. I don't see a need for one. Sure they have gone down in price but there is always something else I want more. Not to mention I still have a non-flat screen TV.

    Funny enough I know very few people with a Blu-Ray player. No one in my office has one. And out of my friends (all of us in are low 30's) only one has one.

    This whole notion that everyone has a Blu-Ray player is false.
     
  5. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    Please don't be so sensitive. I wasn't 'publically ridiculing you. $80 is a lot of money to me too in some cases.

    A few facts.

    You say your TV only 'picks up analog signals'--but they don't send analog signals anymore---so you must have a converter box of some kind to be watching tv at all. Either you or someone in your household bought one OR a box provided by a cable/satellite co. (which I can't afford!)

    I also presume you don't have a PS3--since they play Blu-rays as well.


    Blu-ray players have settings so they can send standard def signals to older TVs that aren't Hi-Def
    So you can play and Blu-ray on any older TV.

    Yes Blu-ray can be expensive, but so can older box sets of DVDs as well.


    I am pretty sure that full sets of 'remastered' TOS on DVD are not sold. So if you wanted the remastered you'd be deprived of many episodes (Which I personally couldn't do without.)

    So if you want to own, in physical media, all the episodes YOU HAVE to buy the old sets without the remastering.

    If you want to have all the episodes remastered you have to buy the Blu-rays (They had a fantastic sale at Amazon not long ago and likely will again)


    If you are really, really hurting for money the Blu-rays season one set is currently at Amazon cheaper by 41 cents than the DVD.

    Blu-ray season one $49.44 vs. DVD season one $49.95---were you thinking of buying season sets?

    Maybe you know of a place where you can get the DVD set for less than that?

    So I guess I'm saying if you can somehow get ahold of a Blu-ray player--that would be your best option going forward.
    I have given away two in the last 5 years and a used one has to be well under $50 bucks and 'black friday' sales are always selling them for under $50!

    If you simply cannot foresee being able to get one---it's going to be a choice, I guess, between some partial set of remastereds vs. full or partial sets of NON-remastereds.



    I look at it this way---someone can sink more money into a format that is inferior and fading out or invest in a newer format that admitedly a little more money

    They haven't sold standard def tv in years and unless you activly seeek out a used SDTV when your currents set(s) die--you will end up getting a HDTV anyway--if you already have a Blu-ray player and some Blu-rays when that happens--you will be good to go for a full upgrade at that point.

    But if you are dead set on sticking with DVD and SDTV till you financial situation changes then it's down to the simple choise between the partial/complete nNON-remastered DVDs or the partial remastered sets.

    But what person who loves TOS enough to post here will be happy with partial sets?

    I checked Amazon and they have brand new Blu-ray for sale at $67.99--no tax free shipping. Still a person might find that $68 they don't have to spend--although buying DVDs requires money as well.

    And nobody ever said 'everybody has a blu-ray player'--that's non-sense.
    And none of your friends have a PS# which IS a blu-ray player either? That's weird since many people that age play video games.

    Many folks are getting into streaming and aren't collector's of movies at all. Please don't say 'most people don't have hi-def" cause that's non-sense as well.

    Most folks DO have Hi-def, but don't collect movies in physical form anymore--- if they ever did.

    Here we have a case where someone DOESN'T have hi-def TV but does collect movies or tv shows.

    As I said, he will someday have to get an HDTV and I'm betting he'll still be a collector after that happens.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
  6. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I wouldn't worry about it, Melakon.

    Many people are happy to continue to purchase and watch DVD. It shows because companies continue to print so many of them. If you want to sample the new effects, you might be able to check out the DVD I mention above from your local library.

    Although I hug my Blu-ray player every night before I go to bed. Well, not every night. :shifty:
     
  7. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

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    Sorry what? TOS-R has been on DVD since 2008. And in fact the 3 seasons on DVD are about to get re-released in new packaging as a Best Buy exclusive.

    Do you mean a DVD set where you can choose between original and remastered VFX? As has been established, that doesn't exist. It's only a feature of the Blu-ray release.

    Ditto. As you pointed out the season sets cost pretty much the same whether DVD or Blu-ray. The Blu-ray is the better version thanks to including both the original and remastered VFX option.

    Since the cost of the season sets is basically the same, we're talking about a one time investment in a decent brand-name Blu-ray player, as the only real difference.
     
  8. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    I just can't justify the expense of DVDs or blurays anymore, not when I can stream TV shows and movies in HD and every episode of every Trek series on Netflix for a negligible monthly fee. Eventually Netflix or Hulu Plus will get around to remastered TNG. I can wait.

    I bought the TOS blurays years ago, but I've decided to skip the new TNG sets. Compared to the price of TOS and TNG on VHS -- something like $12 an episode -- the season sets are a steal. But they still cost money I don't need to spend. With online streaming and renting through Netflix, I've reassessed my need to ever own any movies. I've had a bluray player for like three years, but I only have about five or six bluray titles, counting the TOS season sets as one title each. I really just use my bluray to stream Netflix in HD.
     
  9. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    My financial situation won't change unless I start playing Lotto. I'm disabled, can't work anymore. There is enough money coming in once a month for rent and food and small expenses, but anything nearing or over $100 I have to budget several months in advance. I can play DVD's on my computer, but not Blu-Ray. And I didn't even start buying DVD until 3 or 4 years ago. Twenty-five years ago I was earning about 3 times what I get now in disability. So money is tight. Life was much better when I could just stop by the video store and order the entire 10-lot set of TOS videotapes that had just been released without checking the bank balance. ;)
     
  10. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

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    So make the Blu-ray player the top thing on your Christmas/Hanukkah/etc list? And put off buying things until then?
     
  11. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    You are right--they do sell DVD remastered season sets $87 for all 3 AND it's $99 for all 3 in BLu-ray--$12 bucks difference.



    Well you made me feel like $h!t.........

    I have another older Blu-ray player you can have. I'll box it up and send it to you if you want. PM me your address if you are interested.
     
  12. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

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    I have an extra BD player as well. I just remembered I have a very nice circa 2010 Panasonic player in the closet (it's a great disc player it just doesn't do many online services so I replaced it). I was just coming to post about it and I see Grant had the same idea.

    I'd be happy to send it to you.
     
  13. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    But to enjoy the supposed benefits of Blu-Ray/HD, I'd also need to buy a new television set. Considering I'm less than a foot away from the screen right now in order to read it, I don't think I'd be able to detect any improvements in picture quality. DVD is fine for me since my vision has been quickly deteriorating for the last few years.

    BillJ, thanks, I'll probably investigate that remastered sampler.

    Grant, don't worry, all's good. I did get a little snappish, and I apologize for it. I sometimes compare my situation to early retirement (I had to stop working when I was about 51). I can stay up as late as I want, get up as late as I want (unless the cat thinks otherwise), and I don't have to worry about the rat race anymore. ;)
     
  14. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    Well, you certainly don't have anything to apologize for--I came to the thread late and was looking at is as "who would need to make this choice at this point.." and the answer is obvious---lots of people!!

    If someone came in my apt and said, "Dam that toaster oven is lame-- you can get a nice one for $60!" I'd say "I can't afford $60 and my old one is fine." LOL.

    But to continue to play devil's advocate (or Blu-ray advocate) there are a lot of other reasons to get Blu-ray other than just the picture, sound, features and or course in the case of TOS---both versions of all the episodes. Also I never been able to damage one by clumsiness.

    So it's something to keep in mind for the future.

    After I bought my TOS BLU-RAYS and watched every episode in the remastered version--I turned around and watched them again with the 'angle' button display on. I found literally dozens of other changes than just the 'space FX' by toggling back and forth between versions. They weren't perfect, but dam, they did a ton of work in a short period of time and plenty of it was darn good.
     
  15. Kinokima

    Kinokima Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Nope, most of my friends aren't into video games.

    I am not anti-Bluray. And I like when things come as DVD/BR combo sets so I will have that BR as a backup if I ever do get one.

    Most people I know are more into streaming or getting digital content for their tablets than buying any physical media (DVD or BR) these days.

    Now I am still a collector of physical media at heart but the thing about Blu-ray you know there is going to be a new format 10 years from now too. Whatever you buy is going to eventually be obsolete. My DVD player works just fine and I am happy with watching DVDs. When I do need to buy something new I will definitely buy a Blu-ray player, but it just isn't a priority for me personally.

    I also understand you weren't saying everyone has a Blu-ray player but my main point is a whole lot of people don't have one. At least I think less people have switched to Blu-ray then in the days when people switched from VCR to DVD. Blu-Ray is definitely better than DVD in terms of quality. But I don't think it is as major of a shift as VCR to DVD was.
     
  16. Praetor Baldric

    Praetor Baldric Lieutenant Commander

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    Although I like the enhancements for the most part, I can understand those who totally reject them on the basis that they just don't seem right. I wonder though if these enhancements seem out of place for any objective technical reason, or is it just because we have been watching and re-watching the original versions for so many years that these enhancements seem so jarring as one poster put it?

    In other words, for someone who is watching TOS for the very first time, would they feel that something were out of place if their first experience with each episode was with the enhancements.

    I personally have friends who have always teased me for my Trekkie-ness. These same people had never really watched an entire episode before, yet when they would sit down with me and I would put on an ep like Amok Time (enhanced version), they didn't seem to feel like anything was out of place. Of course, this being their first ever viewing, they wouldn't have known what to look for.
     
  17. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    The shuttle launch at 0:50 in this clip looks absolutely godawful. I don't see anyway this shot could not look out of place to anyone.
     
  18. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Yikes that shuttle takeoff looks clumsy. Could it be Dr. Sevrin's flower children in their stolen shuttlecraft at the end of "The Way to Eden"? Or maybe Matt Decker took a few nips from the bottle before tackling the planet killer.

    I thought I asked in an earlier post but maybe I'm delusional-- In the remastered "Errand of Mercy", when Sulu reports that "a large number of Klingon ships has just arrived", do we get to see them? All the original effects had was what looked like a reverse animation of a photon torpedo hitting Enterprise.
     
  19. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Incredibly, as I recall that particular shot was touted as one of the FX team's favorite shots.

    A lot of the Enterprise's beauty passes look great and blend very well with the HD live action, but then you get overachieving shots like that one that looks like a bad video game and pulls you right out of the story.

    Some of the original FX actually hold up pretty well in HD. The original shuttle launch looks great IMO, notwithstanding a shakey starfield.
     
  20. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

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    It was created for Doomsday Machine and as I recall they thought the slightly wobbly take off was to show Decker's deranged/obsessed and thus inattentive mindset at the time.

    Yes they show a number of Klingon battle cruisers and they created new VFX for the Klingon weapons, but in keeping with the original style.
    http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x26hd/errandofmercyhd152.jpg

    If you're interested in comparisons, back circa 2006 when these were being in batches by CBS Digital for weekly syndication, I made weekly articles that included comparison images between old and new VFX.

    http://trekmovie.com/tos-in-hd/hdtv-star-trek-tos-episode-order/
    Click on the pix/video article links in the listing of episodes. Most if not all of the videos don't work any more due to server changes, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013