Original Generations Uniforms

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Ro_Laren, Apr 21, 2014.

  1. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    They definitely cared what viewers wanted.
    And we saw that, but it wasn't the driving force in the show. More than anything it was the basic Trek concept of a starship out on the final frontier, encountering new life-forms and new civilizations. The initial Maquis conflict, being stuck in a distant part of the Galaxy, and even the idea of a female captain were among a number of different twists to distinguish it from previous shows.

    But as I said in an earlier post, the Maquis thing really was something that couldn't be sustained long anyway unless the Voyager was a Maquis ship rather than a Starfleet one. Even so, without the Cardassians to fight in the DMZ (their reason for being), they'd just be rebels without a cause in the Delta Quadrant.
     
  2. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well said, sir. :techman: For me it isn't so much that there isn't a solid case to be made for lots of uniform variants (indeed, as yourself and others have stated, it's in fact more logical to see lots of different types of uniform), but more that Star Trek was usually so rigid about everybody wearing broadly the same thing that the DS9 jumpsuits can't help but stand out when seen alongside the usual TNG unis, especially given we've never seen this crew wearing the DS9 jumpsuits before. As you say, only TMP and maybe TNG season one were so loose with showing so many different types of uniform together on-screen at the same time. It does lend things in GENS a sort of schizophrenic feel, on a costuming level.
     
  3. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    The DS9 uniforms didn't really look out of place or weird alongside the TNG uniforms, especially since they appeared earlier on both DS9 and TNG. They just looked like fatigues, with the TNG uniforms being the standard duty version.
     
  4. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ Not as a standard outfit for the TNG crew, I meant. Obviously when Julian crossed over to TNG in "Birthright" he was the only guy seen in the DS9 jumpsuit, on the Enterprise sets.
     
  5. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    I never saw the DS9 uniforms as standard outfits. They always seemed to be a variant/special work uniform. At best, they might have been a short-lived interim design before the arrival of the First Contact uniforms, IMO.
     
  6. inflatabledalek

    inflatabledalek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, I mean, even in TNG season 3 when they were in the interim period where the "Proper" characters used the new uniforms and background extras used the old ones it still wound up feeling fairly regimented.

    In that the minor guest characters would usually have lower ranks so it wound up feeling like higher officers had fancy uniforms and lower ones had the old ones. It's only really O'Brien- depending on where you fall on what his rank actually is in TNG- and Wesley at the end of the season who really fall outside that bracket. After season 3 the pattern roughly held the same in that the lower ranks/minor parts usually wore the tighter-but-with-collar uniforms rather than just the women as happened once their position on the ship/the size of their role improved.

    Even if you assume the Enterprise in Generations has started allowing both forms of uniform as is appropriate for the sitaution I'm not really sure it makes perfect sense, shouldn't they be wearing the more formal version whilst on the bridge and the rough and tumble version whilst in the wreckage of the ship/on the planet and away missions? The divide isn't that clear.

    Of course, the uniforms are the least of the oddities about the film (I mean, we're talking about a movie that hopes desperately you don't remember how Kirk got into the Nexus when it claims you can't get into the Nexus by flying into it on a ship...), but because it's such an immediate visual one it really does stand out, perhaps more than it should.
     
  7. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    I didn't even realize there'd been a uniform change on TNG until probably until the fourth season. The uniforms weren't that different.
     
  8. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    It seems to be dependent on whatever specific work a person is doing at the time. Some may be doing grunt work while others aren't.

    But this isn't the first time we've seen personnel wearing different uniforms for different kinds of work. Work coveralls were seen being used alongside standard uniforms in both TNG and TOS as well.
     
  9. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Since almost every show UPN ever produced but one tanked, I doubt they even had any idea what viewers wanted.
     
  10. Serveaux

    Serveaux The Wind Premium Member

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    That would be America's Next Top Model?
     
  11. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Make that two shows ;)
     
  12. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Of course they knew what viewers wanted, and what viewers wanted were... wrestler cameos!
     
  13. diankra

    diankra Commodore Commodore

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    And, aside from the problem over the Maquis crew agreeing to that ( which could be seen as the point Janeway was making as an assertion of her position)... if the uniforms are newly replicated each day, isn't using them a waste of scarce resources? Though equally, if that's been the case until now then I guess the ship just wouldn't have any facilities to wash old-fashioned clothes, so they might have no choice about it.

    I wish Voyager had gone properly with the mis-matched over-stretched crew idea. Tho I know it was what the writers wanted to do, but the bosses said no. ( which is not a Berman bash: his bosses).
     
  14. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm thinking now that the TNG movies should have used new uniforms.

    While I didn't really like the TMP uniforms at least they indicated a change from the TOS series.

    I'm not judging the merits of those particular uniforms for TNG, I'm saying they just should have had something new and totally different.

    Were TPTB really serious when they said they couldn't afford new uniforms and had to recycle them from DS9. Just how much did those uniforms cost to make?
     
  15. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, it's screwy. Apparently they could afford to make a few of each for Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner, but they say they couldn't stump up the Benjamins to reclothe Frakes, Burton, Sirtis, Dorn or McFadden? Yeah, right. :vulcan:

    So they went half-assed, by loaning Frakes and Burton a couple of spare DS9 uniforms that didn't even fit them properly.

    Riker looked like his 'new' uniform had just come back from the cleaners and had shrunk. Or maybe it's just that Riker himself expanded between scenes. :rommie:

    Frankly I think they could've saved a lot more money (and retained better visual consistency) just by forgetting about new uniforms altogether. That way, they wouldn't have needed to supply new threads for Stewart and Spiner either. :bolian:
     
  16. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    GEN had a budget of $38 million.

    So how much for 10 uniforms in 1994? $5000, $50000, $5 million? Its ridiculous that cost would be a consideration.

    I prefer to think they hated the new uniforms so much they didn't have time to make new DS9 ones and be ready for shooting the next day. Or they showed the test scenes to some uber fans and they died of shock at the new uniforms or something like that.
     
  17. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    IIRC, the TNG hero unis cost $3000 apiece. So that's $30,000 wasted.
     
  18. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not wasted.

    A way of making the movie look better in every single scene with the main characters (aside from Picard and Data).

    Having Riker looking too fat for his clothes is inexplicable in a movie with a budget of $38 million.

    Besides you could sell screen-used clothes on ebay for a great deal more than $3000 after the movie was completed I'm sure.;):lol:
     
  19. drt

    drt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well, except for the part where eBay didn't exist yet.

    :)
     
  20. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Actually, a lot of the wardrobe budget went to the 19th century sailing uniforms that were used for a total of about 15 minutes. For a holodeck scene that was really unnecessary to the movie's plot.