Orci talks about Star Trek 3

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Enterprise is Great, Jun 26, 2014.

  1. Enterprise is Great

    Enterprise is Great Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Geoff Boucher – formerly of the LA Times Hero Complex and Entertainment Weekly – has a great new podcast as part of the Nerdist Network – titled ‘Humans From Earth.’ And Star Trek writer/producer (and soon to be director) Roberto Orci was a guest for the second episode which just went online.

     
  2. Keeper

    Keeper Commodore Commodore

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    Soo... yay, no more Ultimate Mystery Box? :shifty:

    I'm happy. I've always loved watching the progress of a new Trek film via the morsels of info dropped along the way.
     
  3. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I am very pleased.
     
  4. StarMan

    StarMan Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Great news.

    I'd be surprised if we didn't see Earth at least somewhere in the mix.
     
  5. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Hurray!
     
  6. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    Honestly, I like what I'm hearing thus far. :techman:
     
  7. xavier

    xavier Commander

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    I really want this film (trek 3) to be a success. Even with Orci's track record. he wrote amazing spider man 2 and I enjoy the film. i even enjoyed it more than captain america 2 but i guess I am in the minority as the film is more hated than loved.
     
  8. Malaika

    Malaika Captain Captain

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    uhm Orci, they weren't the same because they just aren't the same people due to this being another reality
    I'd prefer for them to finally truly play with the AU thing and keep showing the differences in these people and reality rather than making them clones of the original characters and re-tell old stories (like they did in stid that was a copy of TWOK)
    Catering to the tos purists had never been a good idea, take the hint from the old movies and it's not so hard to understand why the reboot movies had been more successful (even though no one would bet on new things about star trek before)
     
  9. SPCTRE

    SPCTRE Badass Admiral

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    I am really, really looking forward to this movie :techman:
     
  10. mos6507

    mos6507 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm not exactly sure what modern culture really expects these characters to be doing that they aren't already doing. They are very much acting in the now and not in a TOS way, even in how they played through the Khan retread, with Spock having a temper tantrum and issuing the beat-down, etc...

    So you want something modern and accessible and relatable, you've got it.
     
  11. Ometiklan

    Ometiklan Commander Red Shirt

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    After reading this article I realized, sadly, that after approximately 24+ years of being interested in all things Star Trek (including all of Voyager - though my interest waned somewhat during Enterprise Seasons 1-2) I don't care about this next movie. I loved Star Trek (2009), but hated almost everything about Into Darkness. Even with this positive description of the intent behind Star Trek 3 I don't really have any faith that this will be carried off any better. To me, this sounds exactly like what we were told leading up to Into Darkness - that the crew was finally together, that they would be seen working together as they were always meant to, etc., etc.

    I might have some faith if Orci had any experience with directing and if more than 5% of his movie writing output was of decent quality (here I am counting Star Trek (2009) as a success because it worked despite its flaws - red matter, long range transporters, poor villain, instantaneous character emotional turn-arounds, etc.).

    I am still interested in anything Star Trek: new TV series rumor, i'm there; new info about Blu Ray releases, there; animated series, there; even fan productions, there. But I don't know that I will be interested in Star Trek movies again until Orci and co are gone and we get some real Star Trek again.
     
  12. xavier

    xavier Commander

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    I hope not. No one should do mystery boxes unless they are JK Rowling. This is one of the reasons why I did not like Star Trek Into Darkness. The mystery box of Khan that we all saw coming and the mystery box that irritated a lot of people when new kirk and spock had to act out Spock's death from wrath of khan.:confused:

    I saw that scene in the trailer and I feared the worst..that the film would be a rehash. I did not want to be right but to my horror, I was right. It got worse when Spock screamed the now infamous KHANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.:rolleyes: Which made my body cringe all over.

    Willam Shatner is enough for 7 billion people on the planet. No one should try to imitate him.:techman:

    Orci, please gives us star trek 2009 again. Something fresh, exciting and original. I heard you are thinking of Deep Space.

    Well…yeah. Its a start to fresh ideas:techman:
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
  13. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You guys have seen TWOK, right? ;)
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That's how some fans choose to look at it, but the filmmakers have made it extremely clear in years' worth of interviews that they have always intended these films to be an origin story for the characters as we knew them, with the circumstances being somewhat different due to the timeline alteration but the core relationship events and character evolution not necessarily being all that different from the untold origin of the Prime cast. The idea has always been that they're different in these movies because we're seeing them at a younger stage in their lives, but that they'll grow into the more familiar versions of the cast. They've never made any secret of that -- it's been their endgame from the start.


    Well, yes, it's fine to say you would have liked to see it done that way. I would too. But it's not actually the way they've ever intended to do it. After all, the whole reason they rebooted TOS instead of creating a new series is that audiences prefer to see the familiar characters. So they never intended to change them too much. True, Kirk and Spock are different from their series counterparts -- but they're different in ways that match their images in the movie era. Abramsverse Kirk really is the womanizing, rule-breaking hothead that Prime Kirk was only caricatured as being, and Abramsverse Spock has already reached the more emotionally open stage his Prime counterpart didn't reach until the movie era. So it's all about giving the audience what they expect from these characters.
     
  15. Malaika

    Malaika Captain Captain

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    eta: replying to Franklin

    I did, and while claiming that stid was a copy of it is a hyperbole, I think that the second half of the movie re-told that story and thus lacks originality.
    As soon as Harrison said 'I'm Khan' I felt like I already knew what would happen and the phone talk with Spock Prime sealed the deal LOL The death scene was right there (and I didn't even get the time to feel bad for Kirk because I knew that unlike tos Spock he wouldn't remain dead).. there is a tiny and subtle, but important, difference between 'parallel'/Paying homage to and recycling. Stid did that mistake and it has a massive amount of fanservice. Some of the critics commented that and some questioned if by trying to appease to old trek fans with all these 'references', the movie ends up 'alienating' those who liked the first movie because it was different and new.
    Ironically, those supposed trek fans they were trying to please are the same who keep bashing the movie and insulting Orci over trekmovie.. and the ones who elected stid as the worst trek movie. Take the hint writers, you just can't make a certain group of vocal haters/fans happy. Just stay away from trekboards.



    Christopher I do get your point but that wasn't what I necessarily meant with my statement.
    I'm not saying that they should be completely different, but I question how they can be that similar to tos or (more specifically) how this can be an origin story of tos when they did explicitly state that it's another reality both in interviews and with canon. They did things with these characters (destroying vulcan above all) that just make the whole 'this is a prequel of tos' a tad impossible IMO unless they use a thing called retcon
    Funny enough, I think that one of the things that make some tos purists feel better is the reboot not rewriting tos.

    Orci is a bit contradictory. One moment he says that this is a different reality separated from tos and they can do what they want and there is no fixing of the timeline, but then he makes statements like the one posted by OP here where he says everything will eventually be like tos anyway (bye bye free will)
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2014
  16. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I agree that the reactor-core "death" scene was an overly derivative mistake, but I think it's the only part of the movie that really was just a copy; the reason it was a bad mistake is that it overshadows the rest in people's minds and leads them to see the whole thing as a copy. I think it would've been a stronger film if they'd handled that one part differently. And I'm inclined to blame that on Damon Lindelof, since he was reportedly the one who insisted that the villain be Khan. And he's not involved in the next film.


    But it's not all-or-nothing. Just because some things change, that doesn't mean that everything else has to be completely different. Trek is full of alternate timelines where a lot of things play out much the same way despite some pretty massive differences -- like the Mirror Universe, where everyone still ends up on the Enterprise in the same jobs despite living in a warlike dictatorship.

    After all, there are many, many causal factors shaping the course of history. You can change a few of them in major ways, but a lot of the others will still play out largely unaltered. For instance, if you killed Hitler as a child, the bitter nationalism and anti-Semitism that converged in Germany and Austria in the 1930s would still have been there and would've probably found a different focus -- and the loss of Hitler wouldn't have changed the actions of Imperial Japan in the Pacific. And that's not even getting into the personal scale, the individuals who would still have grown up in the same places with the same personalities. Hitler dying in childhood wouldn't have prevented my grandfather Emmett from meeting Mary Buzzelle, marrying her, and having four kids, the youngest being my father in 1933. So my family's life might have played out much the same even in a world where Hitler never rose to power. You can change some things enormously and other things will still go pretty much the way they did "before."

    Besides, this is fiction, so the writers can have the timeline happen however they want it to. Their goal was to show something that worked at least approximately as an origin story for the characters we know, but they wanted the freedom to alter the continuity where necessary so they wouldn't be locked in. Hence the conceit that, while many big key events are different, a lot of the more personal-scale stuff plays out the same way -- like characters' decisions to go into Starfleet, their assignments to the same ship, the friendships they form, etc.


    That's not contradictory at all. It only seems that way if you insist on reducing all of reality to a choice between absolute, black-and-white extremes. But most of reality is actually found in the middle ground between the absolutes. Most things in life are a little from column A and a little from column B. So it's not the least bit contradictory to say that the new reality is like the old one in some ways but different in others at the same time.
     
  17. Malaika

    Malaika Captain Captain

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    I'm not the one reducing everything to black or white.
    But I'm also not the one who made the definition of ALTERNATE reality and said that the reboot was one. Nor I'm the one that killed Kirk's dad, Amanda, Pike and destroyed vulcan and most of its inhabitants. Nor I'm the one that put Spock in a relationship with Uhura and thus made them meet under circumstances that in the tos reality didn't exist nor I'm the one that essentially changed the chronological order of some events (and in some instances even the race of people :wtf: or their age, see Chekov)

    your logic is sound, in theory, but it's not my point.
    My point is that no matter how many similarities we can find between these two realities, they're still two separated realities (**) and it's the writers that made it like that, not me. So unless they want to take the responsibility of retconning the whole tos, there is no logical way they can suddenly make the reboot a prequel/origin story of the TOS characters. It's just stupid. At best, this can be an origin story of characters from an alternate reality that might share similarities with tos. But this is not really the origin story of the *tos characters*.

    (**) the idea that tos is the default (main) reality is flawed. When it comes to quantum mechanics (that Orci likes to mention all the time) parallel realities should be, like the word says, parallel to each other and do exist in the same 'moment'. There is not such a thing as 'main reality' that makes all the rules and creates a 'destiny' for all the universes and thus something that the other realities have to follow. There are just many different probabilities that might become real in different realities. At least this is my interpretation of said theories.
    In the comics (that are still approved by Orci) they did show other parallel realities like the mirror one and the gender swap one and those seem to be quite more similar to the reboot reality than the TOS one.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2014
  18. ralph

    ralph Captain Captain

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    If ST3 is going to be in deep space, Khan will not wake up from the deep freeze on Earth
     
  19. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    But he could wake up in a post-credit scene as a teaser for the next movie.
     
  20. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yes, that is exactly it! That's what I've been trying to tell you all along, and it's exactly what the filmmakers have been saying all along. You just misheard it. They were never claiming it was the actual origin story, just that it was similar. That it was close enough to give some insights into how the original characters' formative years might have happened, while not being the same in every respect.


    Yes, but quantum mechanics does suggest that there is a most probable course of events that most timelines would tend toward. Think of a bell curve -- most examples tend toward the center and there are fewer of them the farther you get from the center. So events in most timelines would converge around the most likely patterns, and the assumption is that the Prime timeline represents one of those patterns, so therefore other timelines would tend to converge around similar patterns.


    Personally I think Orci's oversight of the comics is overstated for publicity, given how many continuity errors there have been between the comics and the films. Orci is a very busy film and television producer -- and now film director -- so the amount of time he'd have to devote to such a small piece of the pie as the tie-in comics would be quite small. He probably just has occasional meetings with Mike Johnson where they discuss the comics plans in broad strokes.

    And of course the parallel realities in ST Ongoing are designed to resemble the new movie, because it's the tie-in comic for the new movie and that's the audience they're targeting. But the conceit used in the comics (which I find highly implausible) is that there's an infinity of alternate realities so that every conceivable set of events, no matter how improbable, happens somewhere. Which is a handy excuse for avoiding the need to make sense.