Orci strikes back

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Mountie1988, Sep 6, 2013.

  1. mos6507

    mos6507 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Celebrities ARE held to a double-standard. They are walking ambassadors for the films they make. If they implode, like Joaquin Phoenix (fake or not) or Lindsay Lohan or Charlie Sheen, they drive audiences away. So whether you or I lose our temper, we're not potentially costing the studios any money by doing so. It's simply a mark of professionalism in Hollywood NOT to get into TMZ-style scandals.
     
  2. Mach5

    Mach5 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You really can't compare this to Orci's hysteric breakdown.
     
  3. JWPlatt

    JWPlatt Commodore Commodore

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    Hysterical? Really? It was rather boring.

    These guys probably require the ego they have just to be brave enough to offer ideas they know millions will judge, and still think they know better than us (whether they do or don't).
     
  4. thumbtack

    thumbtack Commodore Commodore

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    Actually, he has. As has Snyder, Shane Black and Simon Pegg. "Fuck Off" is the new Hollywood fad.


    I'm sure many Star Wars fans would like to believe that. And for the record, Damon Lindelof didn't quit Star Trek 3 because fanboys made him cry. He wasn't available in the window Paramount wants it written in.
     
  5. bbailey861

    bbailey861 Admiral Premium Member

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    Yeah, me too.
     
  6. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Psh. If you had read the comment thread, you'd realize that neither "TMZ-style scandal" nor "hysteric breakdown" are at all accurate descriptions of Orci's remarks therein. Bob has (for years now) regularly gotten into verbal fencing matches with people in TrekMovie threads, and this one is no different. Note his concluding post (I think it's #398) in which he says not to take anything he said too seriously. Ahmed had been baiting Bob, and when Bob arrived in the thread he gave it right back in equal measure - no permanent harm done, and I think Ahmed pretty much acknowledges this himself farther down.

    ( ^ Look, trevanian - more syllables! ^ )
     
  7. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The thing is, the only audience Orci is driving away are avid fans of the original Trek. His Trek has built a solid fanbase on its own. So he can tell them to go fuck themselves any time he pleases.
     
  8. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Norf Remembers Moderator

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    That's between them and the studios/production companies that hire them, and obviously Bad Robot is fine with his conduct as long as he keeps putting out money-making films for them. Fans aren't entitled to anything beyond deciding whether or not they want to see the next movie. And frankly, this doesn't hurt the movie in any significant way, because even the people who went into this with a negative preconception before the movie came out still went to see it so they would be able to complain with some knowledge of what happened onscreen. That's just fans again thinking they have a disproportionate influence on what goes on in their chosen franchise.

    Their professionalism comes from their writing, not what they do in their free time. They're just as free to go online and get into arguments as any one of us unless they've specifically been ordered not to by the people they work for, and to think otherwise is just spoiled fans thinking too highly of themselves.
     
  9. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Ocri sounds like a privileged, arrogant little pissant. Par for the course, unfortunately, in young Hollywood.
     
  10. Cinema Geekly

    Cinema Geekly Commander Red Shirt

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    I have no problem with Bob's response to that article. I mean it used the Vegas poll basically as the jumping off point for its whole premise, never mentioning once that the poll was conducted by and voted in by almost soley hardcore TOS fans that disliked the new franchise or that only 100 out the 15,000 people at the event actually voted in it.

    Bob has every right to talk about how much money the films made, because the whole article was based around the idea that the Star Trek franchise is broken, and since this isn't the series finale of ENT or the end of NEM's run at the Box Office I'm not sure the writers premise was particularly dead on.

    Trek has been around for 50 years and has featured A LOT of different styles when it comes to story telling.

    If anything the writer just thinks Trek is broken when in reality his particular flavor of Trek isn't being presented at the moment. And it might never be again unless it hits TV. There is a reason why none of the films have been about real exploration, it just isn't a big money maker.
     
  11. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    For me, I found TNG's movie run to be the biggest disappointment. They were, by and large, expanded TV episodes. The production values were like the television shows (cheaply made sets that didn't look good on the big screen, neon lights). And the stories were weak. I felt cheated because I was getting in a movie something that I was getting at home on TV for free.

    Trek has to play the big-budget action/adventure movie game if it is going to survive in this movie market. Audiences aren't interested in INS type stories on the big screen, or NEM production values in a sci-fi/fantasy movie. Go big, or go home.
     
  12. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'll take any reason I can get.
     
  13. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Right, wrong, whatever, Orci can not win this fight.

    He doesn't respond: "They don't listen to the fans! They're ignoring us!". He/they read the comments, comment on the comments, and they get slammed for it.

    You can't eat your cake and have it to: Either they listen to the fans and the fans risk them commenting on what the fans are saying, or they tune the fans out and you get zero say into it.
     
  14. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Money does not a good film make. His retaliation of profit margins is to show the peons that his movie was a "success," despite their untrained and naive nonsensical rants. The issue of whether or not *Star Trek* has been revived, however, is open. Are these films worth or the Trek philosophy? Or are they veiled, generic sci-fi?

    In any case, I reiterate that whatever the conclusion, Ocri has demonstrated that he's an immature little brat who doesn't know how to handle a situation politically. FAIL.
     
  15. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    Not all of them though. I am an avid fan of TOS (it's the only Trek series I own) and I love the new movies.

    I also have no issues with Orci's responses whatsoever. IF he was claiming the right to be immune from criticism (which is NOT what he is doing) then I would be very critical of his stance. What I find most objectionable, regarding any form of artwork or entertainment, is the sense of entitlement that fans have about having their expectations met. The viewers/readers/listeners are not entitled to satisfaction in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER. They are entitled to decide (and voice) whether they like or dislike the material presented to them. The creators are under no obligation to do anything in a manner other than what they wish to do. Theirs is the absolute right to put something out there and let the audience decide how it feels about it. Abrams et al. have the right to turn Kirk and crew into homicidal maniacs in the next movie and have them terrorize the galaxy if they want. I probably wouldn't like it if they did, but that is the extent of my "rights" as an audience member. And while I also have the right to vociferously express my discontent, I am not entitled to expect the creators to sit back and take criticism without comment. Many creators do so, and that is their CHOICE, but it is not, nor should it be, a requirement. So if Orci wants to tell people to fuck off for whatever reason he deems fit, he is free to do so. And I fully support his right to do so (regardless of whether I agree with his views). And that is as it should be.
     
  16. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Norf Remembers Moderator

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    He's forty. How old are you? How much older does he have to get before the tired "kids these days!" meme stops applying?

    All you guys coming in throwing around insults at the guy because he insulted people who were insulting him are hilarious. "How dare he do that thing we do all the time! The nerve! He should just sit there and take people's constant insults and be thankful for the non-constructive feedback, because he owes us something in our entitled minds."

    And the truly pathetic thing is, it's not because he said some really heinous thing beyond the pale of what you find on mild internet comment sites every day, it's because you don't like the stupid movie he made, so all bets are off. He must be a terrible person because I hated his movie and now he's treating me the same as I treat him. Makes total sense.
     
  17. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Calling him a "little brat" and using "Fail" while bemoaning how he handled the situation: Yeah, you lost any ethical high ground in the fight.

    If you're going to argue that he could have done it better, then do it better. Do it without name calling or stupid game/net memes.

    He's a human, he has a right to defend both his opinion and his work, the same as you and I do. But when you are behaving just as juvenile you're being a hypocrite.

    People's problem with all this is that he bit back at them. "They" are entitled to their opinion and to trash talk the cast and crew, treat 'em like garbage in online communities. But the minute the cast and crew do anything other than say "Thank you sir, may I have another", They're brats, pissants, etc, etc.

    Orci bit back and "they" don't like it cause he's standing up for himself and his production.
     
  18. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    OK, whatever. He should clearly know better at 40 how to handle himself, especially if he's a public figure. He's an IMMATURE 40-year old arrogant privileged pissant.

    If people don't like your product and it makes a lot of money for you: SHUT THE FUCK UP. You still get your money, and your lumps will heal. They get their rant, and ne'er the two shall meet. As the saying goes: stay silent and they'll just think you're an idiot; open your mouth and you remove all doubt.
     
  19. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Case in point of my previous point: Basically what we have here is exactly what I was saying: It's okay to heap the abuse on the man and his coworkers, but by damn god they better take and like and dare not defend themselves.
     
  20. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Flaunting one's success to a high degree in of itself is generally considered bad manners, but dissing the misfortune of others on top of that is just a cuntish thing to do. Doesn't matter if he wrote Taxi Driver.