Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Cara007, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    How much more effort should have been put into casting a Montalban look-alike? Cumberbatch has similar facial features, black hair, and white skin, and clean shaven. Are you suggesting he should have been given makeup to darken his skin as was done with Montalban in Space Seed, but, not in WoK?

    And why, if the complaint is about being Indian or Sikh, would they possibly want Khan to have a thick Latin Accent?

    Why is a light skinned Mexican Guy, born to Spanish parents, so much more believable as a Sikh or an Indian than a light skinned British Guy? The British have a long history with India, it is way, way more believable for a British guy to be an Indian then it is for a Mexican guy (especially with a thick Latin Accent). Mexico and Spain don't have anywhere near the relationship/history with India that Britain does.
     
  2. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    And what if an Indian actor wasn't the right performer for the character? Not saying there aren't some good to great Indian actors, my point is: is getting the race of the character correct more paramount than getting the best performance regardless of race?

    I think Cumberbatch did just fine with Khan. At least on par with Montalban's egotistical Khan from Space Seed and not as scene chewing as Montalban's TWOK Khan.
     
  3. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, how dare Harve Bennett and Nicholas Meyer screw this up. :p
     
  4. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Except for they didn't. :p Nothing in TWOK violates that part of Space Seed, since Khan's origin is never of any interest to the story, and it's still the same actor. Continuity is intact there. Nobody went out of TWOK thinking "Why is Khan no Sikh anymore?" or "Why did they whitewash Khan?"
     
  5. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    We have no verifiable evidence that Khan was a Sikh. We have one historian who was obviously really shitty at her job claiming he was a Sikh. At first sight.
     
  6. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    The exact line was "Probably a Sikh." Even if Marla is 100% competent at her job in-universe, that's still no confirmation. She was only making an educated guess, in-universe.
     
  7. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    I'm still trying to figure out why whether he's Sikh or not is even important to any of the three Khan stories? Forget contunity/canon (which Trek has often done), is there a critical or needed story element related to his being Sikh?

    Here's a question too: Could the studio have put uneasy casting a person of Middle Eastern heritage as a terrorist--especially one that was blowing up buildings in a major city?
     
  8. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Without home video and the comparison shots that come so easily today, most probably never even realized they brown faced him in SS. They recognized the actor and vaguely remembered the old episode. If it were released today, Wrath of Khan would have been reamed (moreso than it was back then in Trek and Interstat)
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I was more talking about why many here hang their hats on him being a Sikh. :techman:
     
  10. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    —not to mention as a person to be targeted by a drone strike and executed without trial.
     
  11. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    The above works under the assumption that the "Powers That Be" were working with some thought as to how their movie would be viewed by the public. No one here who dislikes Abrams and Company would ever admit that.

    Dammit! I want a light-skinned Mexican actor wearing shoe polish on his face to play an Indian dictator! I will settle for nothing less!
     
  12. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Yeeeup. I think all of that might make a studio's PR team a bit twitchy.

    I'd love to see the memos and studio notes on this movie.
     
  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    I have to wonder how many people watching TWOK knew what a Sikh was in the first place or recalled Khan was called a Sikh in "Space Seed"? For that matter, I wonder how many people watching Space Seed in the 60s and 70s knew what a Sikh was?

    The fact remains that the creators of "Space Seed" didn't really care what a Sikh was or make any real attempt to make Khan/Montalban into one. They just named dropped "Sikh" because someone heard they were Indian "warriors" and they wanted Khan to be from South Asia. By the time of TWOK, Khan Noonian Singh is only called "Khan." There is no "pretense" of him being an Indian or a Sikh, he's just Khan.
     
  14. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, Khan is supposed to be exotic and foreign. Obviously it's not nearly complex or thoughtful enough for today's zeitgeist, but this was the 60s. From the white-centric POV of a predominantly white culture, you get the exotic factor by casting someone who is not white. Montalban qualifies despite naturally light skin coloration because as a Spaniard he's still "other than white" in the sense that Hispanic and (non-Hispanic) white are used as separate classifications. In other words being Hispanic is just different enough to be considered foreign by traditional WASP-centric standards. When it comes to the original Khan character, there was quite obviously no shortage of white guys on hand who could have played the part if they hadn't wanted him to be presented as a foreign prince. But now he's Whitey McWhiterson. That's why there's some dissonance.
     
  15. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Cumberbatch is British. That's foreign for me.
     
  16. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    You're Italian, that makes you "exotic" in America.

    The iguana_tonante Story starring Ricardo Montalban
     
  17. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Are you certain? I could swear Spaniards are not classed as Hispanics (That would be South Americans), Spaniards, I could swear are classed as Caucasians/White (If I remember correctly, you call an Italian or a Spaniard Hispanic and you end up with the same offense as when you call an Austrian German, which can come to blows?) Montalban would only be Hispanic by Country of Birth, not by Genetic Ethnicity, no?

    At any rate, Montalban's Accent is further away from Indian than a British Accent is.

    Also, Star Trek is an American Series and American Movie Series, therefore, A Brit is a Foreigner
     
  18. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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  19. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Or... we could have iguana look at the camera and read this.

    [screen test script consists of a single line: "My name is Khan."]​
     
  20. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    They should have made Khan a Sikh woman. Yeh!