Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Cara007, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Another call back to it is Khan's "You can't break rules, how can you be expected to break bones" speech.

    Kirk and Spock are both evolving--growing up. Kirk has to learn that you can't always take risks, you can't let your emotions control you, that rules exist for a reason, he needs to be more mature, more serious.

    Spock has to learn that you can't stick strictly to the letter of the rules a 100% of the time. You've gotta take risks, sometimes act on your emotions. That sometimes doing moral things mean not following the rules.

    That would have rocked. Put her in the center-seat, and just have her own the scene.
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If one single-cell organism on Earth died as a result of Uhura being in command during such a situation, people would be screaming about her being a failure and why do Orci, Kurtzman and Lindleof hate women.

    I don't know whether to :lol: or :scream: at the ridiculous level of hate some fans show for the Abrams movies.
     
  3. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Lindelof is already gone from Trek, so there's that. I would like Orci and Kurtzman to step aside not just because I think they're bad writers but because I'd like to see the folks at Bad Robot let someone else get a crack at Trek. After they worked on MISSION: IMPOSSIBLE III, they handed the next film to other writers and the result was GHOST PROTOCOL, which happens to by my favorite of the M:I films. Would certainly be great if Brad Bird would direct the next Trek film.
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Orci and Kurtzman have been part of a team that has given me two fun movies to watch. I have no problem with them coming back for Star Trek 2016.
     
  5. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, I agree also. This is one aspect of fan's complaints that befuddles me the most. The story is pretty easy to follow actually.
     
  6. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    No he doesn't. He "courts" her, "kisses" her, but there is nothing to suggest that they actually "did it". Also, her name is Lenore.

    One example of Kirk genuinely going after the girl, but it still doesn't lead to bedding.

    Of course that still doesn't stop people from believing that Kirk is most famous for sleeping with Orion slave girls on the whim. Why else would they stick that very image in Trek09? Funny story. The only episode in the original series where Kirk meets an Orion girl, he doesn't sleep with her! In fact, when she puts the moves on Kirk, he actually resists.
     
  7. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    1960's TV didn't allow for even the suggestion of sex. Trek did everything it could to push that envelope, from costuming to leaving alluring and suggestive hints to hints of Kirk's past exploits. Heck, in "Wink of an Eye" they have a shot of Kirk sitting on his bunk pulling on his boots after a previous amorous kissing scene. I wonder what happened there?
     
  8. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Into Darkness is a much better written movie than Gravity. I expect that if Gravity is remembered at all it will be for the nice visuals and nothing more. And I was so excited for Gravity before I saw it.

    I also don't think conference room scenes are necessarily bad for a trek movie. There's a lot of movies out there that do quite well with scenes that are just people talking. If they were that bad the ratings of the TV series wouldn't have been as good.
     
  9. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    By that logic, there's nothing to suggest Kirk had sex with the twins in ID - after all, we only saw them in bed together, in their underwear! We didn't even see them kiss!
    Then there are episodes like "The Gamesters of Triskelion" where Kirk teaches Shahna how to love...
     
  10. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    Where in the film does it establish that using Khan's blood to save Kirk was in violation of a Starfleet Directive? I don't think there was any.
     
  11. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Just plain "wow".
     
  12. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    If you have any evidence from the episode that would clearly indicate that Lenore and Kirk had sex, I'll gladly take it into account. But since this is "hollywood", all characters can have sex in their underwear.
     
  13. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Carol Marcus didn't.
     
  14. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    All I'm saying is don't set something up if you're not going to have a pay off.
     
  15. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There was a payoff: It is part of Spock's journey. It is used to make Spock understand how Kirk saw him, how important Kirk thought he was.

    Have you even seen the movie?
     
  16. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    Ummm... what?
     
  17. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    So all that stuff about Spock being genuinely emotional about those closest to him in the last movie was all a lie? Didn't the last movie establish to both the audience AND Kirk that Spock does indeed have emotions and he does understand the concept of wanting to protect those closest to him? It sounds like you're praising these writers for purposefully forgetting important character moments for the sake of recycling them. But that's not surprising since ID recycles a lot of the last movie anyways.
     
  18. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    Kirk: I wanted you to know why I couldn't let you die. Why I went back for you. (referencing opening scene of the movie, and later scene before the command meeting)

    Spock: Because you are my friend. (Aha! Spock finally gets it!)

    <hands press against glass>

    That's the payoff.

    I simply don't understand how one could miss this.
     
  19. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    Way to move the goal post! :techman:

    So the writers either didn't give a payoff on the Spock scene, or they rehashed it. Which one is it? And don't give the lame excuse of "Well, they did it already in the last movie so it's no payoff!" crap. That wasn't what you have been arguing. You said they didn't give a payoff to the "What would Spock have done in your place" line at the beginning of the movie.

    Which one is it?
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Keep moving those goal posts.

    You said there was no payoff for a scene from the beginning of the film, I've countered that there is. That doesn't mean I'm praising the writers for it, it means that there is a payoff to the scene from the beginning of the film.

    Whether you like the payoff or think it's similar to something that happened in a prior film really has nothing to do with the conclusion you came too about the existence of a payoff.