Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Cara007, Nov 1, 2013.

  1. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    If that's a post from TrekMovie, then perhaps you could provide a link to the page on which it appears?
     
  2. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think as many Trek writers have employed the same trope as you're pretending. Makeshift is correct that it's a bad idea, and I'd certainly be willing to say that's so regardless of who employed it.
     
  3. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I enjoyed The Island, Transformers, Cowboys and Aliens and Eagle Eye. Bring on Star Trek XIII!:techman:
     
  4. Cara007

    Cara007 Lieutenant

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    Thank you. I will. Here is the link:

    http://trekmovie.com/2013/11/11/summer-box-office-budget-reduction-trek-3-tidbits/

    His name is Oscar and he made this comment on post 221.

    King Daniel the fact that you enjoyed all this films does not mean it will be a good thing for Trek at the box office. Just look at final frontier, Generations and Nemesis. A mixed reviewed trek film kills the film at the box office talk less of a film with very negative reviews.
     
  5. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hey, the heart wants it wants. I know a guy who swears up and down that Showgirls is a classic, no lie.
     
  6. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Everytime something has happened to or is headed toward Earth, there's no other ships around to address the issue.

    Take STIII for example: When they stole the Enterprise, where was the ships waiting on the other side of the space doors? One, prototype starship, and that's it? They had enough time to call alert, warm up the Excelsior, and chase after them. Yet: where's the patrol fleets? Spacedock tractor beams? For that matter, how do they even make it out of the dock? Scotty was having trouble hacking the system, Excelsior could have tractored them in the dock or any other ship for that matter.

    Star Trek VI: Kirk, a convicted assassin has escaped, he's heading for the conference. He starts firing on a Klingon ship. Excelsior joins in. Yet, no other Starfleet ships or Klingon ships respond?

    Nemesis is another one: "Uh, you're being followed by a super-killer Romulan battlecruiser with a super weapon that can kill everyone on Earth? Yeah, we'll wait here on the other side of this nebula that totally fucks with coms and sensors, and when you don't arrive on time, we won't in anyway go and find out what happened to your ship".

    And that's not counting the whole "Only ship in the sector" BS. Or Starfleeet being braindead enough to send the 1701-A to Nimbus III instead of parking Kirk's ass on another ship. Or shipping out the Enterprise-B with half the damn ship unfinished.

    Then there's Preston and Riker's super-cloak, which the Romulans seem to take in stride, and nothing ever happens to anyone but Preston; seeing as Picard could have started a war by decloaking in front of a fully armed warbird and revealing that not only has the Fed violated the treaty but now has a super-weapons, and Riker should have been drummed out of the service for covering up a treaty violation and the deaths of his fellow crewmen on the Pegasus.

    Starfleet does not act in anyway that could be called rational ro reasonable.
     
  7. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, Abrams isn't gone, he's just producing; we already know Orci & Co. are coming back; and I think we can pretty reliably conclude that the results will make at least some money at the box office (albeit maybe not to Paramount's expectations to judge by the STiD experience, but whether the penny will eventually drop that filmmaking quality might have something to do with that... who knows :p).

    It's fun and diverting to come up with zany parody Orci & Co. plot pitches for the third movie, but beyond that I wouldn't worry about it at this stage. It'll be what it is. I'm more interested in what's around the corner past that.

    SeerGSB: I'll get back at you in a bit. Apparently the Man expects me to like, work for my paycheque or some bogus shizznit. I was all like: "But... but someone is wrong! On the Internet!" But they're not having it.
     
  8. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

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    My point is that they had so much time to figure out what to do before starting on the script. They didn't have to refine the script during those whole four years, but they could have had it more figured out with all the time that allowed them to think "what do we really want to do with this film?". That didn't seem to be the case here, especially concerning the whole argument they had over Khan. The excuse for the 2009 film was that it suffered from the writers strike, so it ended up being a mishmash of various dafts resulting in stuff like "that's cheating"/"a trick I learned from a friend" creeping out which that doesn't fit in with what the rest of the film says, but it's at least understandable why stuff like that happened and somehow they were able to pull off most of it in post.

    STID somehow feels more rushed, like they started on it too late and didn't really know what to settle for until well into the drafts especially in the case of Khan. Either that's a result of incompetence or there was too much hands on the script to make it really fly. I don't think it's so much the latter because they have a lot more clout especially being credited as producers. Abrams seems to just settle with what he has while adding in his own touches but not too much as he seems to trust his script buddies.

    Pretty much. For example, I love "Space Seed". It's definitely my favorite of all the stories featuring Khan and is in my top 10. That being said, I really dislike the way the Marla subplot was handled and if another episode or film uses something similar, I will call it out for being awful, regardless of how I feel about the rest of the material. I'm not gonna pat STID on the back for showing Earth with a pathetic security/defense forces just because other Trek stories, better or worse, are guilty of the same trope. It's a trope I would like to see die a horrible death. I would shout "FINALLY" the moment a villain thinks he has the upper hand concerning Earth but uh oh there's a defense force that he'll never have a chance of getting past. It's like in PROMETHEUS, after so many films had characters shocked in awe over strange shit, suddenly here comes Charlize Theron ready to use a flame thrower to prevent any contamination/incident from happening, which possibly makes her the smartest character in the entire ALIEN franchise, although the cause of her death might challenge that. That's why NEMESIS falls flat when everyone starts glooming over the news "he's going after Earth", yeah, and the only thing between Earth and Shinzon is the Enterprise? Not buying it. Never will.
     
  9. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    But he already did that. Twice.
     
  10. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You're welcome to your opinion but I'm going to say that the bulk of people who saw the film disagree with you.
     
  11. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

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    More mediocre than shitty, and Hollywood thrives on mediocre because it's safe. The only Bad Robot production to exceed from that is GHOST PROTOCOL, which was surprising even for me because of how lousy III was, but I suppose having the Brad Bird factor elevated things. I wish he would direct the next Trek film, as he has the right sensibilities.
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    People who vote at Rotten Tomatoes actually rank both Star Trek films higher than Ghost Protocol.
     
  13. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

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    So what?

    Going by that, people like TRANSFORMERS more than GHOST PROTOCOL.
     
  14. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Said this upthread: STID feels like two movies compressed into a single one. The last act feels like a lot of sequel concepts that were cored and compressed into final act of the first film. Khan's part fills bigger than what we got. I rarely want to see the progression of a story from draft to screen, but I'd love to see the 1st drafts to shooting drafts of this movie.
     
  15. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

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    I think most would, especially regarding with what Orci/Kurtzman wanted to really do vs Lindelof's ideas.
     
  16. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm talking about actual viewer ratings not box office. None of the Transformers movies were ahead of Ghost Protocol.
     
  17. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

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    I was talking about viewer ratings. Rotten Tomatoes has people vote for TRANSFORMERS at 85% over GHOST PROTOCOL'S 76%.
     
  18. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Right you are, I clicked the wrong one. Both sequels rated lower than Ghost Protocol.

    Point is, shouldn't audience satisfaction rate pretty high when talking about the overall quality of a film?
     
  19. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

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    Sure, if you really care so much about what other people think of these films. I like what I like, if TWOK wasn't regarded so well, fine, I still find it the most engaging of all the films. If people like nuTrek, fine, I don't think they're all that great but I'll remain hopeful for an installment I like and I think Brad Bird would be able to deliver that, whether audiences dig it or not. I'm selfish that way.
     
  20. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    That would be my choice, but on the other hand I wouldn't want to telegraph: HEY EVERYBODY IT'S KHAN!!!! So casting a non Indian makes some sense.

    Not really, since author's intent is she's an "expert". The writers obviously aren't, though.


    He says records were lost. Though that seems to be contradicted later in the episode, when they produce a picture of Khan and detailed history of what he did and where he did it.
    I can't imagine that the entire Sikh population and knowledge of them would be wiped out in the Eugenics Wars.

    I don't recall saying they didn't. As I said, I've read the books. Any book that includes every ST character mentioned to be alive in the 20th or early 21st Century as well as appearances by Hadji and Jamie Sommers is pretty much the definition of fanwank.