Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Mach5, Jun 11, 2009.
Oy. Well, I guess they did try to make best of the scenes, but... oy.
I hated Chakotay and Seven. It may sound weird, but I think both of them could have done better. They just didn't... click. And I didn't like Seven's sudden character-change in the last few episodes of Voyager. Maybe if they had been building her wanting-to-explore-her-humanity over more episodes, but to having no interest in a relationship whatsoever to suddenly desperate for one in Human Error, just didn't sell it.
I always thought Janeway and Chakotay were an obvious pairing. Having said that, I didn't mind the Chakotay/Seven of Nine relationship at all. It was set up in "Human Error" that Seven had feelings for Chakotay, or at least thought he had potential. As stated in that story, her experience in Unimatrix Zero had affected her quite a bit, and apparently opened her up to the idea of being in a relationship. So it didn't quite come out of nowhere.
I for one, had a WTF look on my face as well for C/7. Hell, they didn't like each other in the beginning!!!! I don't blame the actors though-I blame the writers for their stupidity on a quick-fix to a great show. I would have definitely given the audience an imagination that J/C would be together in the end. I'm glad the after finale novels got rid of C/7. That was indeed nausiating to say the least. I liked the Doc with her..but I also liked Harry with her as well.
Thumbs up! I actually liked it coming out of the blue a bit. It didn't become a focus of the show, there were enough little hints in the last half of season 7, then it got sprung on us. I am a HUGE fan of the Tom/B'Ellana arc, and one of those was enough. Springing 7/C at the very end was fine by me.
Oh, but it did come out of nowhere.
In "Human Error," the attraction was obviously one-sided. Watch it sometime, differentiating between the two Chakotays, and you'll realize that the First Officer was completely exasperated with Seven. There were times when I'm sure he wishes he'd spaced her. In addition, in the episode "Natural Law" that followed soon after, there is absolutely NO romance between the two of them. None. Seems like there would have been if the romance in "Endgame" was going to happen.
As for the "softening" of Seven after "Unimatrix Zero," I didn't see that, either, at least not consistently. It was early Season Seven when she said farewell to Mezoti and the twins without visible emotional anguish. In fact, when she shed a tear after they beamed out, she quickly pointed out to Icheb that the tear indicated a malfunction. Yes, later in the program, she was more emotional about Icheb's sacrifice, but that was after a near-death experience and an act of compassion by her protoge. Whatever hopes she had for "normalcy" were nicely squashed by "Human Error."
People talk about inconsistent writing for the Captain's character, but, for me, Seven of Nine takes the cake. She can be nearly all-Borg (and all-knowing) when the writers need it and nearly all-human the next week, when the writers need it. They should have had a progressive timeline where she becomes more human and less Borg along the way, including a gradual loss of her "know-it-all" input. Too bad.
The C/7 relationship was obviously a 'throw-in" by the writers to give Seven of Nine a story line. And as for how well it was acted, well, just let me say that I used to cringe all the way through their scenes until I finally realized that I could fast forward without losing one eentsy bit of the plot. The dialogue is sophomoric, at best, the scenes add nothing to the story, and the acting is just . . . ugh.
The C/7 pairing in "Endgame" was a disservice to both characters.
You hit the nail on the head, AuntKate.
^ I second that.
Sorry but I disagree with you about Seven. The affects of slavery don't fade way just because you're back with your own people. Seven maybe be human but she will also always be Borg. It the curse/burden she will always have to carry. It's what makes her like Odo, Worf & Spock. She's the outsider amoung her own kind.
Oh, I don't know. I wasn't interested in my future wife at all when I first met her, but after a few years, things turned on a dime and we started dating. There wasn't really any buildup at all... she decided she'd like to get to know me, and once I figured that out, I thought "why not?", and we started dating. So there's a real life example of a relationship that "came out of nowhere" as it were.
I'd agree that Chakotay didn't get along with Seven and didn't particularly care for her for years, and the reverse was also true. The episode with the Mars explorer in the subspace anomaly is a good example of the two not getting along well. But things can change, and change in a hurry sometimes. Would it have been more dramatically satisfying with some buildup? Sure. I certainly think so. But it didn't have to happen that way to be believable.
If anything, the way the two broke things off in the Homecoming novel was what I found hard to believe. That came out of nowhere.
I didn't find the break-up in Homecoming beliveable either. Nevertheless, I was most pleased that it happened.
But, truth be known, real life usually makes for poor fiction.
The only problem I had it was that it ruined the Seven of Nine/Doctor Pairing....
Actually, the REAL problem I had with it was that I couldn't believe it... Chakotay's and Seven barely interacted throughout the course of the series... And even if they had just sprung it, the dialog was so poorly written and performed that I didn't think there was much emotional content there.
I'll blame Jeri Ryan for that... Her performance was really lacking... Sometimes she really hit the mark and surprised me through the course of the show, though very seldom..... And this is where we needed it so that we could suspend out disbelief.
Chuck and Blair? Those two are cheap copies of Kathryn Merteuil and Sebastian Valmont, and don't even get me started on Serena and Dan. These couples got nothing on Pacey & Joey, period!
The only reason I catch an episode of GG now and then is that hot chick Vanessa. Such eye candy...
No offense, but things tend to happen differently in real life, then on TV.
I expect certain things out of TV couples, like chemistry, friction, conflict, sexual tension, end eventually - strong mutual feelings. Worf & Jadzia had all this, so did Trip & T'pol, not to mention Tom & B'elanna who had it, and then some! C/7 had none of these things. None that I've seen, at least...
OK, Chicago, this means war!
Soo.... andersonh1 gives an example of how the (seemingly) out-of-nowhere C/7 pairing is perfectly feasible in real life, and the responses are "that makes bad teevee"? Sorry, but that's a completely subjective response, and doesn't make his point any less valid. Why would you want the C/7 romance to be exactly like all the others? Maybe the fact that it's more like real life than normal TV is a good thing in some viewers eyes, by giving us something unexpected.
Boring teevee, to be more precise.
(again, It's not my intention to offend andersonh1. Its not that important how we find love... Its only important that we do find it.
Of course my response was subjective (most of them are). That's why I listed things that I expected from TV romances.
I guess it didn't bug me because it wasn't a tv romance--the big romance of the series was B'Elanna and Tom. Seven was a great character without romance, Chakotay was hardly a character at all, so to have a romance between them be a plot point in the finale because it's really only barely starting in Endgame and the real romance will blossom after the show's over seemed perfectly satisfactory to me.
Think of Endgame as the start of a romance, not a full-blown romance that started months before. Endgame is a hint of what's to come--after all Seven was Chakotay's wife when she died, not at the time of Endgame itself. I haven't read the novels that came after and don't intend to--the show is canon enough for me.
Don't get me started on the doctor and Seven--sheesh, what they did with the doctor in the last 2 seasons was just awful. I don't blame them in some ways, because Picardo was so good in the role--but there are some eps there at the end that I don't ever intend to watch again. Message in a Bottle was o.k. (the two EMHs, right?) and even the Wink of an Eye plot (name?), but the stuff thereafter, was just totally contrived. A "romance" between a flesh and blood woman and a hologram is just silly--let him find another hologram.
But…but…but…that’s the only kind of response I know how to give.
That is, if we exclude the fact that good fiction has to follow certain rules, whereas real life rarely follows them.
At that point in the series, Ryan hadn't actually acted since "Unimatrix Zero."
Or maybe my standards are too high.. Robert Picardo is in the show, and I expect people in the show to be at least HALF as good as he is, and that's pretty hard to do.
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