Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Mach5, Jun 11, 2009.

?

Chakotay / Seven pairing gets:

  1. Thumbs up!

    21 vote(s)
    17.8%
  2. Thumbs down!

    97 vote(s)
    82.2%
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  1. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Star Trek didn't need to "address" homosexuality, but acknowledging its existence might have been nice...
     
  2. Saquist

    Saquist Commodore

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    Hopefully I got the quotes seperated...
    It is debated. I can only say that it contributed to me turning away.
    Sex is thrown at me everywhere I go. Some us feed on it and other like myself find it egregous and forced.


    Those a great examples of real relationships.
    I think we've forgotten this as a culture.



    I can truely relate.
    What a perfect way to relate the problme....High School relationships.

    TOS the Trek that started all of this, was full of sexual exploration and innuendo. There are jokes even about how Kirk slept with every women he met, even the green one. How about the fact that every child shown on TOS were evil! Uhrua was even raped in "Gamesmaster of Triskailion."(sp) Trek's underlying theme is to influence discussion of political & social injustices. Trek's demographic was never children.[/QUOTE]

    It's true Star Trek true Demographic has been for young adults. But realize also they put all (most) Trek in the prime time timeslots where the most amount people adults and kids could see it so it had to appropriate for viewing.

    I like that pattern you've illuminated.
    I wasn't always aware of that.
    In other words Trek tried to be preachy without being profoundly obvious just recognizable.
     
  3. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    While you're generally right, I don't think "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" is the best episode to cite for subtlety. I mean really, people who are half black and half white? :shifty:
     
  4. Capt_Piett

    Capt_Piett Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Thoughts on Seven/Chakotay? It came virtually out of nowhere and felt forced. Chakotay should have ended up with Janeway.
     
  5. AuntKate

    AuntKate Commodore Commodore

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    I said that they approached issues indirectly. You used the word subtle, not me. However, I do remember being confused about the discrimination, the first time I saw the episode, because I frankly didn't distinguish between characters based on which side of their faces were black and white. In fact, I didn't even notice the difference until the characters pointed it out. Isn't that subtlety? :shifty:
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Did y'all see the episode of That 70's Show where Kelso remarked on this?

    He was sooooooooooo baked.

    You hear people talk about how they don't discriminate or are colour blind, but learning to think well despite the climate is no substitute for utter ignorance.
     
  7. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So the whole scene of the one being told that he was black on the wrong side and thus inferior wasn't direct enough? ....or how such stupidity destroyed all life on their planet? Kirk & Spock's reactions?

    It was so in your face if could have be a backhanded pimp slap.:lol:
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You know who does a fabulous back handed pimp slap?

    Wayne Brady.
     
  9. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, he just knows how to choke a bitch.
     
  10. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Thank you!

    I was 11 when that episode aired on television, and even I recognized it as an "uh duh" moment.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I know we all feel like a tit now and then, but tell me about other "Udder" moments in your life?
     
  12. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Your accent is getting in your way... :lol:

    "Uh, duh!" As in, "this is so obvious!"

    I've never understood why this episode is lauded the way AuntKate did. I guess, though, that there were still places in the US in 1969 where a story about racism had to be told "indirectly" in order for folks to realize it was wrong.
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And it was still the same with the Star Belly Sneeches vs. the Sneeches with no stars on thars.

    I still vomit a little when ever if reminisce about the end of that Volcano movie with Tommy Lee Jones when everyone gets covered in chalky ash at the end and some stupid kid says "Everyone looks just the same."

    You can do it well, and you do it bad, but I most certainly do not have an accent. :)
     
  14. Brit

    Brit Captain Captain

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    Considering that Martin Luther King Junior was assassinated in 1968, that would be a very big yes. In fact I would say that are places even today all over the world were persons of certain races, political or religious views shouldn't venture into unprotected.

    Brit
     
  15. AuntKate

    AuntKate Commodore Commodore

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    A very big yes, indeed. And I agree that there are places today that still discriminate because of race, particularly. The beauty of that episode is that the differences between the faces is so arbitrary, having nothing to do with the character's value or ability to contribute to society. They have no more control over which side of their face is white or black than we have control over our race. As viewers, we didn't see or appreciate a difference, yet that difference was of critical importance to the aliens.
     
  16. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Thanks so much, both of you for explaining to this biracial woman that bigotry exists. I wouldn't have been aware.

    My point was...

    I didn't need to be told indirectly or directly that racism was wrong--even in 1968.

    So I see this episode as a far-from-subtle example of television preaching.
     
  17. propita

    propita Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Teya, I don't think they meant to offend.

    And there were lots of people in 1968 who did need to be hit over the head with a 2 by 4 with real simple explanations "uh, racism is not only bad, it's stupidly irrational--see?"

    I remember watching "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" on a Saturday afternoon in the 1970s--I was about 12 or so. I asked my Dad why the movie was focusing so much on what the white father thought and felt, what about the black father? Dad said that the movie was targeting white people, to explain things to them. I asked why was it so preachy and artificial--I mean, Spencer Tracy was "white man has all the answers" and has to explain it to the black parents. (Yeah, like they don't know anything) It just sounded so condescending. He said it had to be simplified to make sure the message got across--to white people. That they wouldn't take the explanation from the black father.

    Btw, I'm white. My parents didn't raise me to think less of somebody because of their skiin color. I could think less of them if they were jerks--who come in all colors.

    OT: Why the hell can I remember Frank Gorshin and Lou Antonio (from that episode) and I can't remember any of my shit for the Bar next week?
     
  18. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Perhaps not. However both have made it abundantly clear that such things need to be patiently explained to me.
     
  19. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    Let's keep it about the posts and not the posters. Otherwise, take it to pm or put each other on "Ignore" - unless we're done discussing C/7?

    BTW, this is addressed to EVERYONE.
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The completely sad affair of the entire relationship has to be that since it seemed, to me at least, half blind as I am, that if Seven didn't wear underwear, then Chakotay could not charmingly sport her pragmaticmatic and efficient choice of undreoes under beneath his own uniform on duty flouting the articles on regulation dress that if caught it would go unfortunately on his permanent record.

    But then a black mark on ones record, ask Tuvok, is the surest method of promotion.

    On the other hand, I don't think anyone wouldn't notice Chakotays over starched starfleet issue, three sizes too big for her, boxer briefs stuffed under one of her skin tight, perhaps often mistaken for skin, bio suits?

    Honestly people, what is a healthy relationship but an exotic extension of our wardrobe?
     
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