One particular SPOILER from The Name of the Doctor

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Procutus, May 19, 2013.

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'Who' is John Hurt

  1. The original incarnation of The Doctor (pre-Hartnell)

    9 vote(s)
    9.1%
  2. The 9th Doctor, the one who ended the Time-War

    57 vote(s)
    57.6%
  3. The Doctor's final incarnation, the 13th Doctor

    3 vote(s)
    3.0%
  4. Something else entirely

    30 vote(s)
    30.3%
  1. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: John Hurt as The Doctor

    I think if they wanted an older Paul McGann they'd have hired Paul McGann ;).
     
  2. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Re: John Hurt as The Doctor

    Agreed. Stunt casting can only go so far, if they wanted to use McGann's Doctor then there is no reason they couldn't use McGann.
     
  3. PorthosShadow

    PorthosShadow Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: John Hurt as The Doctor

    Has anyone ever seen Jon Hurt and Paul McGann in the same room together? Think about it...
     
  4. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Interesting debate. I am in the "ninth incarnation" camp.

    Sorry to go slightly off topic but why does this thread say it has a spoiler? There is nothing in here that wasn't broadcast on televison. We are merely having a debate about who Hurt might be. I only ask because I wanted to ask a few questions of my own and I'm not sure what is classed as a "spoiler", (I thought it was anything that is known but yet to be broadcast, ie not what this thread is!)
     
  5. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    Because the episode just aired over the weekend, and some people might not have seen it yet. The spoiler warning is a courtesy.
     
  6. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Gotcha.

    So I'll ask then. Was it ever revealed why Pertwee was marooned on Earth? I've heard the idea of a season 7(?)b. Could Hurt be the incarnation between Troughton and Pertwee? One that did something so terrible he was exiled by the Timelords and became the Doctor's great secret?
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    There was never any mystery about that. From Troughton's final episode, the conclusion of "The War Games":

    So basically they sentenced him to community service.


    And the hypothetical season between "The War Games" and "Spearhead from Space" (possibly incorporating the Second Doctor's appearances in "The Five Doctors" and "The Two Doctors") is season 6b.
     
  8. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My theory: John Hurt is the Second Doctor.

    Rationale: At the end of "The War Games" the Doctor is sentenced to exile and "a change of appearance". By the time we see Jon Pertwee in "The Spearhead from Space" we ASSUME that this follows immediately and Troughton directly became Pertwee.

    I assert that Troughton's "appearance was changed" into John Hurt (i.e. no actual Time Lord regeneration), but by the time we see Pertwee, John Hurt has gone through a regeneration proper.

    So yes, "Season 6B" theory, but with a half a twist.
     
  9. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Nice to see a couple people finally commenting on The possibility of HurtDoctor being between Troughton and Pertwee. I don't necessarily believe it to be true, but, it certainly is just as viable a possibility as Pre-Hartnell or between McGann and Eccelston, since we didn't see Troughton morph into Pertwee.
     
  10. Chrono85

    Chrono85 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Didn't we see the second Doctor running around the TARDIS as a memory, or whatever? He may come in between the 2nd and 3rd Doctor's, but I think that it is highly unlikely that he is playing the 2nd Doctor. I also don't think that he is an older version of the 8th Doctor, because i'm sure that the BBC would have simply brought in McGann for that. Of all of the theories, I feel that the most likely one is that he is a secret regeneration between the assumed 8th and 9th Doctors.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    In the Clara montages, we saw him running through a park in the heavy fur coat he sometimes wore; I think he ran right past the Eighth Doctor. In the final scene, I'm not sure if he was one of the multiple Doctors (or photo doubles thereof) that we saw running through the, err, mindscape. However, Clara did say that she'd seen all eleven known Doctors.
     
  12. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I definitely HATE the "secret regeneration between 8 and 9" idea. And I really hope they don't go there.
     
  13. JRoss

    JRoss Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You could get John Hurt to play Old Eight instead of McGann to show that he stayed in that form for a loooooong time.
     
  14. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It is better to have a secret regeneration between 2 and 3?

    Secret regeneration between 8 and 9 has a built in story to tell, and a good one, about the Doctor gone to the dark side to protect his people and how he came back from it.
     
  15. intrinsical

    intrinsical Commodore Commodore

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    While I agree what The Doctor did during the time war would be an excellent story, I'm not certain it is a story that should be told. Nothing I'll see on screen would live up to my active imagination of who are the Skaro Degradations, the Horde of Travesties, the Nightmare Child, the Could-Have-Been King and his army of Meanwhiles and Never-Weres, or what the Moment is.
     
  16. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There are several problems with saying that Hurt is an aged McGann.

    For one thing, the dialogue indicates that Clara saw McGann's face, yet she doesn't recognize Hurt's face, which makes it unlikely that Hurt=aged McGann.

    The dialogue also seems to indicates that, because he "broke the promise," that whole incarnation was tainted. Whatever good that Doctor may have done, what that Doctor "did without choice, in the name of peace and sanity" overshadows the good. If the Doctor thought of his McGann incarnation in that way, would he have shown it to Craig? Would John Smith have doodled it in the Journal of Impossible Things?
     
  17. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    She encounters Eight just before two Plus he was one of the Doctor's we saw in the previous episode - hardly a secret.
     
  18. DalekJim

    DalekJim Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Wouldn't that make John Hurt the Third Doctor?
     
  19. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No because he is claiming it's the Second Doctor with a different face not a regeneration - I can't see it myself.
     
  20. Allyn Gibson

    Allyn Gibson Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yet that would be consistent with what "The War Games" tells us, and it would reflect the way the Doctor's changing face was seen into the early 1980s. Lawrence Miles and Tat Wood devote a sidebar to what exactly is a regeneration in About Time 3 (both editions) in a piece called "When Was Regeneration Invented?" Miles and Wood explain that viewing Hartnell-to-Troughton and Troughton-to-Pertwee as a regeneration like Tennant-to-Smith is a retrospective retcon; it makes sense to call those events "regeneration" in light of later stories, but the terms in which the stories themselves approached the matter aren't similar to the way regenerations are approached later. Hartnell to Troughton was a "rejuvenation" -- the TARDIS made the Doctor younger -- while Pertwee to Baker was a "regeneration" -- every cell in the Doctor's body changed. Troughton to Pertwee, however, is something entirely different than either rejuvenation or regeneration; it's more like extensive plastic surgery to make the Doctor look different. It's not until "The Invasion of Time" that the idea that regeneration is a natural thing Time Lords do takes root, because the series needed to explain why Borusa looked different, and then "Destiny of the Daleks" normalizes it. The idea that the Time Lords did their super surgery on Troughton to make him look like John Hurt and then, once his usefulness was at an end, perform the same surgery to make John Hurt look like Jon Pertwee, is a supportable idea based on "The War Games" and "Spearhead."
     

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