One particular SPOILER from The Name of the Doctor

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by Procutus, May 19, 2013.

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'Who' is John Hurt

  1. The original incarnation of The Doctor (pre-Hartnell)

    9 vote(s)
    9.1%
  2. The 9th Doctor, the one who ended the Time-War

    57 vote(s)
    57.6%
  3. The Doctor's final incarnation, the 13th Doctor

    3 vote(s)
    3.0%
  4. Something else entirely

    30 vote(s)
    30.3%
  1. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Since it is a British show and uses british analogues (by and large) - the only discussion I seem to remember about the Doctor and his degrees suggests he has a bog-standard undergrad degree not a doctoral degree by the terminology they use - at least in the Classic series - in the new series I think he mentions have a PhD in medicine?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2013
  2. Mad Jack Wolfe

    Mad Jack Wolfe Commander Red Shirt

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    Medicine, and cheese making. (from The God Complex)
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Funny... in the original series, he often insisted that while he was a doctor of many things, medicine was not among them. I guess he got a medical degree sometime between the two series.
     
  4. Redfern

    Redfern Commodore Commodore

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    What was it Tom's Doctor said in "The Ark in Space"?

    "Well, my doctorate isn't in medicine and Harry here is only qualified to work on sailors."

    But, as you say, he probably picked up some skills.

    Sincerely,

    Bill
     
  5. Davros

    Davros Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: John Hurt as The Doctor

    There was no Doctor before Hartnell.
     
  6. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Googling it - he actually says:

     
  7. Atticus

    Atticus Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    From The Moonbase:

    POLLY: Listen, are you really a medical doctor?
    DOCTOR: Yes, I think I was once, Polly. I think I took a degree once in Glasgow. 1888 I think. Lister. Hold that for me, will you?
     
  8. Stevil2001

    Stevil2001 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't know about that. Romana says in The Ribos Operation that her triple first is "better than scraping through with fifty one percent at the second attempt." Though I suppose he could have gotten an advanced degree later, the tone of the conversation works against that hypothesis. In The Deadly Assassin, Runcible thinks the Doctor was expelled, though he's vague on the details, and the Doctor doesn't elaborate ("Oh, it's all been forgotten about now, old boy")-- maybe that was his first attempt?
     
  9. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    I've always loved this exchange between the Doctor and the Master from "The Sound of Drums:"

    The Doctor: Master.
    The Master: [smiles] I love it when you say my name.
    The Doctor: You chose it. A psychiatrist's field day.
    The Master: As you chose yours. "The man who makes people better." How sanctimonious is that?
     
  10. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Probably John if the later "John Smith" is any indication.
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Except the use of that name wasn't the Doctor's idea, at least not as originally presented. The first use of the John Smith alias in canon was by Jamie in "The Wheel in Space," without the Doctor's knowledge. The Doctor then used the alias again in "The War Games" and subsequently when he was exiled to Earth at the start of his third incarnation. (Jamie's independent coinage was repeated in the McGann movie when Chang Lee gave the wounded Doctor's name as John Smith when admitting him to the hospital.)

    Although more recent works have complicated things. "The Vampires of Venice" showed that the Doctor's library card featured Hartnell's face and the name "Dr. J. Smith." Some tie-ins have indicated that the First Doctor used the alias when renting the Foreman scrapyard and picked it up from Susan's favorite rock group, John Smith and the Common Men (to whom Susan was listening in "An Unearthly Child"). So you could be right in light of later retcons.
     
  12. Nightowl1701

    Nightowl1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I would have laughed - and cheered - if the Name of the Doctor, after all that drama, turned out to be simply "John Smith." (Or more likely Jonsmith, in Gallifreyan parlance.) The oldest question in the universe, hiding in plain view - well, guess what? So was the answer. Would have added more weight to Eleven's speech in the end about his real name not being the point. Or, to borrow from Batman, "It's not who I am that matters. It's what I do."
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2013
  13. Chrono85

    Chrono85 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    One possibility is that John Hurt is indeed playing the last Doctor; the one who dies. This doesn't mean that he has to be the 12th or 13th Doctor, or whatever, and he could be the 500th. Maybe the 'peace and sanity' he was talking about was his own, and that after so many life-times, and with all of those memories, and painful losses, he decided that he couldn't continue on, and wanted to end it, and so he chose not to regenerate. Since The Doctor seems to have an overwhelming will to live, this act could be considered to be against the basic principles of The Doctor, which is why this incarnation is not deserving of the moniker.
     
  14. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    Perhaps not so dramatic as ending his own life, but along the same lines...maybe this isn't about something the Doctor did. Maybe it's about something he didn't do. The Doctor helps people. Maybe John Hurt's Doctor made a decision to NOT step in like he normally would; maybe he allowed an atrocity to happen that he could have otherwise prevented.
     
  15. The Grinch Doctor

    The Grinch Doctor Two Hearts Too Small Premium Member

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    I really like that idea. Reminds me a bit of Deep Space 9's "Hippocratic Oath" where Bashir chooses to help the Jem'hadar, although that really didn't have much to do with apathy.
     
  16. intrinsical

    intrinsical Commodore Commodore

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    Matt Smith's Doctor specifically said Hurt's incarnation broke the promise of being The Doctor and did not deserve to be called The Doctor. I don't understand why some believe Hurt's Doctor is a pre-Doctor. Short of some time paradox, a pre-Hartnell incarnation would not have taken up the mantel of The Doctor and could not have broken the promise of being The Doctor.
     
  17. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I guess but the line "What I did, I did in the name of peace and sanity' suggests agency.
     
  18. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, it's more understandable that this action was something he chose to do. While the Valeyard and other ideas sound cool, I don't see any show runners ever having the Doctor actually become evil in some fashion, nor will the shoot the golden goose by having the Doctor's real and final death played out in any defined fashion. Redemption is something that has stood out a lot in several fashions this season. The Doctor starts in a monastery, Akhaten is about lives past and possible through the leaf, Cold War is a forgiveness tale for Saldak, Hide also for Dr Palmer, Journey explicitly brings up the Time War, and Porridge's talking about the poor bugger who blew up the galaxy to stop the cybermen. RTD's run dealt with the Doctor's survivor guilt, and I expect Moffat is going to deal with forgiveness. The Doctor expressly hoped for that in The Doctor's Wife.

    Now, with a Doctor with some unforgivable sin, I expect the next story to deal with the Doctor finding personal forgiveness, most likely from the Time War. The Moment, or whatever the big bomb was called, may even have been his idea. He might have felt the war would consume all reality and he developed the bomb as a means to get the sides to stop. The didn't, he pushed the button.

    The Doctor keeps being consumed with guilt, but whether he's listening to speeches from Davros or the GI, he's listening to ethical criticisms from hypocrites. Vastra has pointed out his tendency to blame himself for what he can't control. The Doctor accepts the JHDoctor had no choice in his actions, but the Doctor can't accept his having done whatever it was. I expect the story to be about the Doctor learning that he can't always control things and sometimes there's no other choice. And, he's got to forgive himself and stop blaming himself.
     
  19. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Why not? The Pre-Hartnell Doctor, may have decided to change his horrible ways and even gave himself a new name of The Doctor, in order to celebrate that change and then he failed to keep that promise and did something he felt was necessary but was viewed as horrible and unforgivable by the future incarnations
     
  20. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Just based on what Patrick Troughton said, it doesn't even seem clear that any pre-Doctor Doctor left Galifrey. It sounds like he was the first to left and he left because he was bored and because he wanted to help people.