Once Upon A Time - Season 2 Thread

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by JD, Sep 30, 2012.

  1. FreezeC77

    FreezeC77 Commodore Commodore

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    If Cora is not redeemable then Regina has to be even LESS able to be redeemed because all of Regina's actions were done *WITH* her heart intact.

    Cora as far as we know never killed anyone until she took out her own heart. This fairytale universe/logic has heart = emotion but also has heart = conscience.

    So Cora did all of her actions without being able to feel or process anything as good/bad. Regina was able to and just ignored or decided she didn't care/was hurt too bad to care.

    If you were to use a Buffy the Vampire Slayer type logic Cora without heart = vampire... Cora with heart = vampire with a soul.
     
  2. Mister Fandango

    Mister Fandango Fleet Captain

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    Who (an interrogative pronoun) said it was?

    I (Mister Fandango) said that Snow will feel guilty for doing it because she's (Snow White) an inherently good person, but that doesn't mean what she (still Snow White) did was wrong, nor feeling that guilt will be in any way redeeming. It just means she'll (that's right, still talking about Snow White) feel that it was wrong, unlike Regina if their (Snow's and Regina's) roles were reversed.

    When did I (back to Mister Fandango) ever mentioned Rumpelstiltskin aside from being a love interest of Cora's? (Helpful hint: I didn't.)

    I (Mister Fandango again) realize you have some severe mental disability when it comes to following pronouns, as you (stj) clearly stated, but "she" and "her" in no way, shape, or form refer to Rumpelstiltskin at all. In fact, they (the pronouns ''she'' and ''her'') generally refer to the people mentioned in the same paragraph they're (those same pronouns) brought up. Not whatever random conversation you're (stj) having with yourself (still stj) in your (yep, still stj) head.
     
  3. EliyahuQeoni

    EliyahuQeoni Commodore Commodore

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  4. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The notion that an "inherently" good person will naturally feel guilt over doing nothing wrong is deranged. The clarification that you consider it a sign of goodness rather than the cause of goodness really doesn't make the difference you think. However, I will add that most of my post was directed to correcting what I thought was an erroneous position on your part, but this was a general comment on a common attitude.

    The part of my post this comments on was in response to your question, which is to say, a conversation with you. You asked, "So why should anyone feel bad for that evil twat?" You may have meant it as a rhetorical question, but you got an answer. My reasons are not required to take into account whether or not you compared the show's treatment of Regina to its treatment of Rumplestiltskin. I compare them. After all, they are my reasons, not yours. I don't know which ox of yours was gored, but bellowing about it so loudly is unseemly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
  5. RJDonner&Blitzen

    RJDonner&Blitzen Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    ^^ If good people never felt guilt over having done nothing wrong, at least half of the behavioral health industry would not exist. :rommie:
     
  6. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^^^A funny joke. But the reality of good people feeling guilt usually stems directly from social moral codes that condemn a multitude of supposed sins, not from the intrinsic sensitivity of a morally superior conscience. A really simple example would be a virgin who feels guilt over being sexually attracted to a person of the same sex. Nothing done wrong, feelings of guilt irrational ethically speaking, it's a case of being wrong. Which is sort of deranged.
     
  7. RJDonner&Blitzen

    RJDonner&Blitzen Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    That's one reason, but it is also the result of empathy. Many soldiers are tormented by the memory of the enemy combatants that they've killed-- despite anything those enemy combatants have done or intended to do, or the fact that they would have killed them first if they could.
     
  8. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Since so many soldiers go thousands of miles to put themselves in these kill or be killed situations, there really is a deliberate choice involved. Feelings of guilt in these situations are perfectly rational. Feelings of guilt rooted in self-questioning whether someone made a mistake are not quite the same thing as the vague idea that emo is a sign of goodness I think.

    So far as the discussion bears on Snow White, Snow White knows that the return of Cora's heart has a real chance of thwarting Cora's attack (otherwise it would have been dismissed by Regina as a foolish ploy,) and that Regina would be enraged and pose the same kind of magical threat Cora did. (No, Regina, despite cooperating with Cora, was not the same kind of threat, or Snow White wouldn't have lived long enough to swindle Regina.) The supposed need to kill Cora is contradicted by deliberately creating a new enemy.

    Snow White being all emo about it doesn't change that. Trying to back out? Well, if Regina in the follow up scene rips out Snow White's heart, starts to crush it, then tries to stop herself just a wee bit too late, well, who will feel Regina's newborn goodness is vindicated?
     
  9. FreezeC77

    FreezeC77 Commodore Commodore

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    I liked the little flashbacks to 1983 even though it looked like Regina's fashion style was 2013 in 1983 ;)

    It was cool to see the bus bench had an ad for Encom (the company from Tron) so maybe Storybrook exists in the real world of Tron.

    So the guy who wandered into the town is actually the kid who had his Dad taken 30 years ago. I would assume the Dad being of the real world did age while in Storybrook since Henry aged being of the real world. Although both his parents were born in the fairytale world.
     
  10. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Somehow I thought the show itself was going to approve Snow White's actions. Although it's very coy about the nature of Snow White's intentions, it definitely disapproves what she did.
     
  11. Neroon

    Neroon Mod of Balance Moderator

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    I' a little conflicted about where the story is going with Regina's redemption. I like those kinds of stories, but Regina is more fun when she's in full-on evil mode
     
  12. Snick27

    Snick27 Captain Captain

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    Well i would say this show is getting darker. For Snow White to plead to be killed by Regina is something i didnt think we would ever see on this show.
    Finally we have the reason why no one has ever seen or been too StoryBrooke. Though i guess if you just drove thru it you wouldnt see anything.

    Oh and enough with the Star Wars crap. We get it Disney, you bought Star Wars.
     
  13. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Star Wars crap was probably planned before the sale The creators just like it.

    Regina to me is weird, I don't get why she blames Snow so badly, and didn't seem to care at all that her mother killed her boyfriend.

    The "twist" at the end of tonight's episode was lame.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    We knew they were both called Owen, half way through the episode, if we had cared enough to remember this guys name from his previous appearances before he YELPED his identity for no reason at the half way mark, we should have understood what was going on in the teaser.
     
  15. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've resigned myself to buying the eventual S2 DVD set in order to get caught up, but what I really want to know is if the show is getting a third season. Has anyone heard anything on that front?

    I checked out a recap of the newest ep, and have to say that I'm liking the unpredictability that stuff like Cora's death, this dark side of Snow, and Greg's true identity has generated. With only 5 eps left in the season, I don't see any clear-cut signals or signs as to where things are headed, which is neat.
     
  16. js

    js Captain Captain

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    Thrilled that the show is "punishing" Snow for what she did - yay consequences! And that Henry called all of them out on them being the heroes and yet not making the heroic choices anymore. But AGAIN, Henry manipulates Regina into doing the right thing... then runs right back to Emma! GRR. Methinks this is establishing a pattern to show Henry chooses just as wrong as all of his family does when it comes to love. (Not saying he should choose Regina over Emma - but maybe some acknowledgement/encouragment to Regina when she does do right? Because it seems that every time she makes a right choice, she still gets kicked in the face for it. :()

    But as soon as they showed the young kid, I knew who it would turn out to be. From next week's promo, I'm guessing "HER" will turn out to be Neal's fiancee?

    Totally missed the Encom ref - argh! Though I was staring at that bench ad trying to figure out what it was beyond a computer ad establishing the year!

    Did catch the Star Wars shoutout.

    And in a bit of nostalgia, loved that they were making lanyards - totally period appropriate (unlike, as someone mentioned, the clothing choices in Storybrooke for the 80's scenes).

    I also liked the "be careful what you wish for" aspect of the curse being all Groundhog Day for Regina.
     
  17. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I knew the kid was the adult in town now as soon as I saw them enter the town in 1983.

    I wish it had a better ending, something shocking.
     
  18. Scroogourner

    Scroogourner Admiral Admiral

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    Now the question. Has Owen's dad aged? Being from outside the town originally but kept there for 28 years. I'm guessing he's in the same ward Belle was in.
     
  19. Vendikarr

    Vendikarr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Henry was from outside Storybrooke, and he aged. Logically I would think Owen's father did as well. But when has this show depended on logic?
     
  20. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I was kinda bummed that we didn't see more of an 80s influence in this episode, or that we didn't see Regina having to make more of an adjustment to our modern day world, with our cars, computers, pop culture, and other strange customs.

    It seemed like she just took everything completely in stride from the start, which was a bit odd (although the fact she didn't know who Springsteen was was a nice touch).