Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1st

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Shilliam Watner, Sep 29, 2013.

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  1. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    As I posted above, the furlough is a good example of this and why the House keeps trying to push for partial reinstatements of certain aspects of the Federal Government they, apparently, didn't realize would go away when, you know, it stopped getting funded.
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    It is amazing people call for the end of government departments they know absolutely nothing about.

    Fox News and Conservative radio have to be the two worst things to ever happen to this country. Not because they offer differing viewpoints but because they don't actually take the time to educate their viewers/listeners on what impact various actions will have. It is pretty depressing. :(
     
  3. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    They aren't about education, they're about offering ideological support and affirmation to people whose beliefs are rejected and reviled by the rest of society.
     
  4. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    Well everyone is entitled to thier own views in a Democracy even if we disagree with them. The issue with the case of the budget bill or CR in the USA is that instead of being grown up about it and putting a clean bill before for the House of Representives and voting on it like adults. Some members appear to be acting like petulant children screaming I want it, I want it (defunding of the PPACA).

    Now I haven't been a parent, but you do those of you with children always give into your children when they are having a temper tandrum?
     
  5. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    Problem is that in most households the children don't control the cash flow. As long as the Tea Party has enough seats to block spending bills, we have to pay attention to them.
     
  6. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    Recent polling suggest that won't be soon. Keep fighting the good fight. The Know-Nothings did the same thing.
     
  7. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    I just hope this is worth it to the Republicans. They've drawn up a playbook where any fringe group with enough seats in the House will be able to shutdown the government.

    If the situation was reversed the Republicans would be screaming about how the Democrats are disrespecting democracy and the United States.
     
  8. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    The Tea Party is fighting this one battle at a time, thinking that's how they will win the war, but they're wrong. They forced a shutdown--a victory of sorts for them. They may force a default--another victory, in their twisted view. But their actions have hurt and will continue to hurt the country. The Tea Party strongholds are a lost cause, so the best the Republicans can hope for is to band together and ignore the 10-15% of their party that's totally lost it, even if it means some of them get primaried out of their seats as a result.

    At some point, they have to put the good of the country first, even if it costs them their jobs.

    From where I'm standing, there's basically no way for moderate Republicans to win here, and the Tea Party is doomed in the long-run, too.
     
  9. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    It's not compromise, that's for sure.

    If I make a demand, and then lessen my demand, is that compromise? It's part of compromise, but not all of it. It can't just be that I get less of what I want; I also have to give up something else I want in exchange for getting anything at all.

    The fact that you think those measures represent "compromise" is part of the problem.

    REAL compromise might be something like "delay Obamacare 1 year in exchange for universal background checks on gun sales." Or something to that effect. If Republicans want concessions on the ACA, which is central to the Democrat platform, they need to be willing to make concessions on something equally central to their platform in exchange. Since they don't want to do that, they're trying to hold our credit rating hostage instead.

    Democrats have been willing to compromise from the start, on some things. If the ACA is not one of them, tough shit. The law has passed all the normal democratic tests, and now it's time to see how well it does in the light of day. If it really does fail, it'll be a lot easier to get rid of it in a few years. If it succeeds, the Republicans will look like fools for opposing it. (That's really what they're afraid of.)

    But the faith & credit of this nation is not and never again should be a political bargaining chip, and it is entirely proper to refuse to negotiate as long as it is under threat.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  10. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    Like when they shut down the government and then complain that certain government run things are shut down?
     
  11. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    Now from what I've been able to gather the Republicans hold some 230 or so seats in the US House of Representives, compared to the Democrats 200 or so.

    Those affiliated to the Tea Party wing of the Republican party number around 40 or so. So unless my maths is wrong, they don't even hold a majority in their own party and as such don't have enough seats to block a clean bill should one be presented.

    Of course it's more complex than that, as the more moderates members of the Republican party might face a challange in their next primary be it for the 2014 mid-terms or the 2016 elections.

    The danger is the longer it goes on the more both parties might alienate the undecided voters, Which might make the difference between re-election or losing the election.

    And at the moment din't polls suggest that the Republican Party is blamed more for the shutdown than the Democratic Party? If that remained the case through to the 2014 mid-terms could this action back-fire on the Republican Party and could they lose conrol of the House?
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    Those forty members are backed by huge money that also donates to other House members. They vote against that money and their funding dries up and goes towards other Republicans who will do the bidding of their masters.

    As far as elections go, so many House members are in districts where they simply will not lose regardless of their performance or if they crash the economy unless they lose to another Republican.

    So for the Democrats to win the House it will be by slow erosion of the Republican base over many terms not an overnight shift. That rarely happens.
     
  13. Robert Maxwell

    Robert Maxwell Comfortably Numb Premium Member

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    Another possibility that shouldn't be discounted is a moderate/sane Republican being primaried out of his seat by the Tea Party, and then the Tea Party candidate loses to the running Democrat. That happened to a few seats in 2012, and can happen some more in 2014. The Tea Party's ideological purge of moderate Republicans can only benefit the Democratic Party's long-term prospects.
     
  14. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    Well some might consider that a good thing. The problem with holding ideoligies which are are two far to either side of the political spectrum is that you risk alienating the largest group that make up the electorate. The moderates, that hover around the centre ground. All it can take is for enough of them to stay at home and an seat could be lost be either party.
     
  15. Davros

    Davros Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    The fair tax is anything but fair. It places a far greater burden on the poor as they have to spend a higher percentage if not all of their income on basic survival.
     
  16. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    From a cynical point of view the reasoning could be "If I am better off under X tax regime, then it's a fairer tax."

    Good job I'm not a cynic. :p
     
  17. Davros

    Davros Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    The problem with life being unfair, is chiefly that it's unfair in favor of the wrong people.
     
  18. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    As opposed to being unfair in favor of the right people? Who's that? You? :p
     
  19. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    No, it's me. After all, what's mine is mine, and what's yours is yours and mine, as long as you're the one picking up the tab. ;)
     
  20. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1


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