Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1st

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Shilliam Watner, Sep 29, 2013.

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  1. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    That's encouraging to hear. I'm new to Medicare. Unlike a lot of people, I had no problems with my private insurer. For most of my life, I was very healthy, but when I eventually did get sick, I did so in a big way, and they paid out a lot for me. So I've been a bit concerned about what being on Medicare will be like. I'll tell you what I don't like already: dealing with Medicare itself, plus a medigap policy, plus the prescription plan. But if they pay for everything I need them to pay for, I'll survive the inconvenience. :)
     
  2. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    A better question would be: is auto insurance compulsory?
     
  3. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    ^ Even I would say that that's not a valid comparison. Yes, auto insurance is compulsory if you're going to drive or own a vehicle. But it's not compulsory that you drive or own a vehicle.
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    :guffaw:

    You realize that the reasons that protections for workers and benefits built up over the years was caused by taking power away from the free market?

    Without worker protections, you'd be living in a bug-infested slum working for pennies on the hour and have no health-care at all.

    Go back and live in the late-19th/early-20th century as a worker then come back and tell us all how good life is...
     
  5. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Caped Trek Mod Moderator

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    But it would be FREE Market bug infestation. Competition would weed out the weaker bugs. ;)
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    :lol:
     
  7. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    Indeed. What "free marketeers" rarely take into account is that normal market forces break down when (a) the consumer literally can't live without the producer's product and thus has no negotiating power and (b) it ultimately depends on a human being on the producer/provider side being ready to let another person suffer or die if they can't afford treatment. A good way around that breakdown is to spread the expense over a large pool -- the bigger the better -- so a large number of healthy people pay a little to ameliorate the expense of a small number of very sick people. But apply that principle on a national scale, through a government that people voted for, and then it's "No! Socialism!"

    States have the right to regulate the insurance industry operating in their own lines, including auto insurance if they wanted. Do you want the federal government to supersede those states' rights?

    Those "in power" are those people voted to put in power. If Medicare is so bad, why hasn't it been voted out?
     
  8. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    I think it's a valid comparison (barring a system with UHC, which apparently the US can't have 'cause O NOES TEH SOSILISM).

    Cars are prone to accidents, so if you are going to operate a vehicle, you need car insurance. Bodies are prone to illnesses and injuries, so if you are going to operate a body, you need health insurance.
     
  9. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    Specifically, tax to provide for the general welfare is the clause, which necessarily includes spending the money taxed. Note that it doesn't say tax to provide for other enumerated powers. The history of Congress shows that, from the beginning, they interpreted this provision to mean that Congress had a broad spending power as long as it wasn't a criminal regulatory power. They've also used taxes from the beginning to influence decisions rather than for the sole purpose of raising revenue. "Sin taxes" (cigarettes, alcohol, etc.) fall under this umbrella, for example. Throughout the history of our nation, there has been no serious Congressional practice or court ruling to indicate any of this is problematic.

    The shared responsibility provision (individual mandate) is just a continuation of this.
     
  10. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    Plus, it's not like insurance companies actually pay the costs that hospitals bill their services at anyway, so Medicare is not unique in paying lower rates.
     
  11. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    Alidar, well said. (Oops, both posts!)

    Okay, I'm kinda sorta with you. However... Short of suicide, one has no choice but to operate one's body. So I'm not with you all the way. ;)
     
  12. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    Exactly. That's my point.

    Medical care is expensive. Since as a society we decided we will not hold back emergency medical treatment and let people die on the steets without assistance (I can't believe I even need to say this, but apparently there are people for whom this is not automatic), if someone can't affort the treatment, the rest of society will pay the bill for them. In this scenario, it's only reasonable and fair that anybody would chip into the common pool, according to their financial possibilities (OMG SOSILISM).

    So, given that you can't opt out to having a body, you can't opt out to having health insurance. Make it reasonable, make it fair. But the compulsoriness is nothing to be outraged about.
     
  13. mari

    mari Captain Captain

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    Indeed. After my accident last year, the hospital charged me almost $50k, and Aetna ended up paying just over $9k.
     
  14. Tora Ziyal

    Tora Ziyal Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    It is straightforward (Hey, you deleted that sentence while I was writing!), and I agree 100%. I was only arguing that since cars can be opted out of, auto insurance isn't a totally valid comparison.

    I had to deal with Aetna when I was handling my father's finances. Awful company, in my experience.

    And now, folks, I'm going to go offline and get ready for... a doctor's appointment. Have fun. :)
     
  15. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    Sorry. I was worried that sentence would sound too aggressive, and that was not my intention, so I modified it to better explain what I meant. :alienblush:
     
  16. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    All I can say is that we should be embarrassed that in a nation as wealthy as the United States that we have fifty-million people that don't have health insurance. And the problem is that the taxpayers end up footing the bill when these people get truly ill. As far as fining the uninsured, count me as someone who has no issue with it. The government is essentially billing them for medical services they'll need somewhere down the line.

    So count me as someone who doesn't see a problem in forcing people who are able to get some type of coverage.

    My wife carries our insurance through her employer and we pay between two and three hundred dollars (U.S.) a month for it. When I fell ill with a bacterial infection and bleeding ulcer last month, I went to the doctor had a rather uncomfortable exam, blood work twice, x-rays and prescriptions that ended up running me all of thirty-five bucks total out-of-pocket.

    I'm sure our premiums will go up this year, but it's still worth every penny.
     
  17. IndyJones

    IndyJones Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    That's bull. And I've got 3 main beefs with this section.

    First: I posted the link the other day, but more than 90% of physicians take Medicare. And that percentage is going up, not down. Do you think they would all keep doing it if it weren't worth if for us?

    That link also shows how much I, as an Optometrist, get reimbursed for Medicare patients. Suffice it to say, if I could see 2 *healthy* Medicare patients an hour, 7 hours a day, 50 weeks a year (and I do average more patients than that currently) I would bill out at $445,000 for professional fees. And, of course, Medicare patients aren't universally healthy, and the patients coming in for exams even less so. So, in reality I'd also end up billing for diagnostic testing and followups. Meaning that $445,000 is significantly lower than what I'd actually receive. Those payments aren't going to send anyone to the poorhouse.

    Second: Do you have a list of hospitals that don't accept Medicare. Other than certain government run facilities, children's hospitals, and the Shriner's, I'd imagine it's exceedingly small.

    Thirdly, and most ridiculously, although Medicare is pretty effective at keeping administrative costs down, and at reimbursements to providers (also saving tax payers money, natch), one of the biggest knocks against it is that it is not able to negotiate drug prices. Remember? That's the law.

    So, how is it that Costco and Walgreen's and private insurers can negotiate with the drug companies but Medicare can't, and somehow the pharmacies are losing money dealing with Medicare? Does not make sense to you?
     
  18. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Premium Member

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    The Congress has the power to tax you, me, and everyone's grandmother however they see fit.

    Asked and answered. Move along.
     
  19. cooleddie74

    cooleddie74 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    If the previous pages of this thread are any indicator, no. Most of the people who attack programs like Medicare and Medicaid bring up anecdotal stories of this place or that place that won't accept the programs, yet at best it's only a minority of care providers and the stories are deliberately played up to make it sound as if doctors everywhere are in open revolt against government health insurance - and by association, the Affordable Care Act.

    It's the same playbook we're used to. Blow up random instances that are clearly in the minority into a nationwide problem and use the manufactured controversy to cut funds of or even shut down the program in question. Because a lot of Americans are just plain too partisan or lazy or dumb (or a combination of all three) to do their own personal research to see for themselves if the allegations are true. It happens all the time.

    "Well, it sounds like something that would happen knowing our government!"
     
  20. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Ok Trekkers, Don't Forget To Sign Up For Mandatory Obamacare Oct 1

    Whatever the other anecdotal evidence, my wife who is a mental heath professional will lose Medicare and Medicaid patients under Obamacare. They simply will not pay for her services. In a meeting with a representative of the (insert Federal Agency that I don't remember the name of because I don't work in that area) she and her colleagues were told in no uncertain terms that they were "committing fraud" by doing what they were trained to do, counseling, and under ACA would no longer be paid.

    I'm not a fan of the government doing much of anything outside of national defense, but hey. Just sayin'.

    Anecdotal, but first hand.

    My big fear is that once it's in place and "running," services will have to be reduced due to funding limitations. Our government doesn't do very many things efficiently, and adding 1/6 of our economy to that mess is not encouraging.
     
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