Odo-Kira Relationship

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by bluemoves, Jun 6, 2011.

  1. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    "Beauty & the Beast" is most apt, indeed!

    :rommie: >>SNORT!!!<<

    I'm sure there are fans of the Odo/Kira pairing, but STAR TREK has never done romances very well. For example, in DS9's first episode, when Sisko was shown to be so hurt over Jennifer's death, that was done very well. But everything they were shown as saying to eachother in life was shite writing. The actress playing Jennifer was hot and seemed sweet, but she had problems with her delivery, most of the time, because of the aweful dialogue she was given as Jennifer (although her stilted acting worked as the alien).

    It made me wonder sometimes, why they even attempted longer-term romances in STAR TREK. Even O'Brien and Keiko's marriage had a lot of arguing, it seemed like, just to avoid having to write about relationship stuff. "I hate this station Miles!" Don't get me wrong, I love Keiko, I really do. But her marriage could've benefitted from better writing. Interestingly enough, that effort went into Miles' bromance with Bashir, instead ...
     
  2. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You can be a huge fan of Odo/Kira.

    You can be a huge fan of Jonathan Frakes.

    You cannot be both. :p
     
  3. Peach Wookiee

    Peach Wookiee Cuddly Mod of Doom Moderator

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    I liked Odo/Kira myself.
     
  4. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Quite so.

    :cool:
     
  5. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I agree with 2takesfrakes.

    The entire relationship has zero chemistry. I'm still not sure what convinced Kira that Odo was the right guy for her. I'm not sure why Odo was so infatuated with her.

    The whole thing does play along into the "Beauty and the Beast" archetypes (with the "Ugly" man wins over the "Beautiful" woman's love)

    That relationship as well as Worf's relationship to Jadzia (another relationship with zero chemistry) seemed to me simple nerd fantasies seeping into the writing of the show (Don't forget about Leeta and Rom either).

    Funny how there's never an ugly woman who wins the love of a handsome man.
     
  6. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I guess chemistry's in the eye of the beholder.
     
  7. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'll say one thing for Odo: he was the only boyfriend Kira had with any personality - that's for sure!
     
  8. mendelin

    mendelin Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    First of all, as for me, I'm a big fan of Kira&Odo relationships. I think, those relationships were a true masterpiece of all Star Trek love/romance/friendship stories.

    Why Odo was so infatuated with her? Odo was an outsider from the first time of his discovery. He was stranger, liquid "nothing" and "nobody". He prefered stay seperate from Bajor people and Cardassians. That's why cardassians give him job as a policeman.

    Kira was only one (at first time), who tried to accept him as a person. It was important for him, to be accepted. That's why he tried to protect Quark. Quark was also a stranger on Cardassian station in Bajor space. He tried to stay (intuitively) close to Odo, and Odo felt it.

    What convinced Kira that Odo was the right guy for her? Nothing. Odo wasn't right guy for her. It was never showed, that Kira was in love with Odo. Episode "His Way" was like a game. Something like "oh, OK, let's try to play this romance game". According to "His Way" Kira simply accepted the fact of Odo's love. Of course, she has warm feelings to him, he is her best friend and so on, but there was no passion from her side. Only acceptance, that was necessary to Odo.

    I can't agree, that Odo was ugly. Odo was quite handsome, he has some fangirls on the station ;) And he was quite well for Arissa.

    Yeah. Worf is Klingon, Rom is Ferengi, and they are quite handsome among their race. Why Trill can't be in love with handsome Klingon? :)


    It's not funny, by the way, it's tragedy! Have you ever seen fat woman, which is the hero of romance?
    Why fat woman can't be heroic, romantic, desirable for attractive men? So, there is a term "rac-ism", "sex-ism", and there should be the term "fat-ism"!
     
  9. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    With regards to your last paragraph, I recommend "Hairspray".
     
  10. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I would agree with this thought.

    I'm one that thought Odo's relationship with Kira was fine.

    I had a harder time when he went so out of "Odo" when he was being drawn to "the link".

    ... and then everyone just thought that was OK.
     
  11. milquetoast

    milquetoast Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    - I believe that (how/why Odo came to love Kira) was addressed a bit more in the Terok Nor Trilogy. The whole idea of the relationship and unrequited love story was a not planned story arc, but borne out of a moment in Necessary Evil. Also the story arc was mostly from Odo's perspective which would explain the lack of focus on Kira's feelings towards Odo. Many moments between them are pretty ambiguous and could be interpreted in different ways on Kira's side. I felt that it was subtly developed (Kira's feelings) starting from A Simple Investigation.

    I also agree with mendelin in that Kira was (most likely) the first one to accept Odo as a person and not a freak. And that may partially explain what may have initially drew him to her.

    - I disagree with this. In Chimera & Tacking in the Wind it's shown through her actions that she does love him.
     
  12. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This. Also, feelings cannot always be explained, nor be predictable for that matter.

    I love, love, love this couple. Surprise, surprise. ;) I can relate to Odo and I'm sure many people can. Falling in love but too scared/insecure to take the leap. And I adore Kira possibly because she is a tough woman who has a vulnerable and softer side. And she carries it all in her beautiful eyes. And, well, this is the sort of woman I'm attracted to. So yes, this couple had me both believing and cheering! This is a couple that really shouldn't be together by cookie-cutter standards, somehow found love together against all odds, and in the end couldn't be together. What a tragedy. And how beautiful! Well done. I love it. (I'm also living proof that a shy curmudgeon can end up with a strong willed, vulnerable, beautiful woman.)
     
  13. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Despite your avatar, I was unaware of the strong connection you felt with Odo and Kira. In that light, the story of their romance seems a little more agreeable, now. Although we don't know eachother, I can still be glad for someone that they've found Love. Congratulations on doing so. I needn't tell you how hard it is, "out there" ...
     
  14. mendelin

    mendelin Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Congratulations! It's always a miracle to find strong willed, vulnerable, beautiful Love!

    ----------------

    Honestly, I was disappointed. "What you left behind" (WYLB) was brilliant finale for DS9 in general and all (or almost all) arcs in particular. But as for Kira&Odo story:

    In and after "Chimera" Odo start to doubt in rightness his and Kira relationship. He thought about inability to aging together, to have children together, to have the same targets together (he is liquid and he needs Great Link, she is solid, and she is happy to not deal with Great Link) and so on. Where were these thoughts, when Odo tried to get Kira? So, after "Chimera" it was obvious, that Odo and Kira will separated.

    In WYLB we can see, that Odo was key figure for Female Changeling. The main condition for her capitulation was the return of Odo to the Great Link. Kira was little angry at him, that he has no plans to return. But she finally let him go. And he finally let self go!

    It was the great disapointment, because I thought, that Odo always had the sense of responsibility. He achieved Kira's love, he made her to depend on him emotionally, and after all he goes with clear conscience.
     
  15. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    While it might be tragic that the Dominion War ends at the expense of the Odo-Kira relationship, I think that Odo was oriented to be primarily a messenger for the Alpha Quadrant/Federation--an emissary in a sense. As early as Behind the Lines, Odo explored linking as a means of convincing the Founders to cease hostilities. In Chimera and other episodes, changelings attempted to convince Odo that his desire for Odo was making it difficult to achieve complete satisfaction through linking. Laas isn't offering Odo anything different from the Founders, just a different way of isolating themselves from the problems of the galaxy. However, Odo's message in that episode--a position he has matured into--is more "if you love someone, set them free," something demonstrated to him by Kira and other solids. Conversely, Kira knew there would come a time that he would need to let go, for himself and for the things that they value collectively.
     
  16. Worf'sParmach

    Worf'sParmach Commander Red Shirt

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    I was never a fan.

    I felt like from a dramatic standpoint, Odo's love for Kira would have been more impactful had it remained unrequited. It represented his secret longing to be truly accepted by solids, as the Female Changeling pointed out in Heart of Stone. I think had he revealed his feelings to her in the very end, when he was choosing to go back to his people, it would have been much better.

    It also seemed sort of one-sided to me... We knew that Odo always had a thing for Kira for reasons that made a lot of sense, but never once did we get that impression from her until BAM, they're making out. I never thought they had great romantic chemistry, he always seemed more like a confidant/mentor to her than a lover (kinda like Sisko and Dax). It seemed like she was dating her father or something.

    Don't quote me on this, but I remember reading somewhere that Nana Visitor was not a fan of the pairing.

    I do agree that Trek shows never did a great job with romance. Not entirely sure why, it's like they just couldn't figure out how to make it seem natural. It's no secret that I am a big fan of Worf and Jadzia but even their writing had some serious blunders (I'm looking at you "Let He Who is Without Sin..."). I think the difference between Odo and Kira vs. Worf and Jadzia is that there was obvious chemistry between the two of them from the moment they met. Worf does not warm up to people, but he did with Jadzia. So when she goes after him, you can't say you didn't see it coming. Even though we know and understand why Odo loves Kira, I just don't see it being returned. Kira cares about him because she has known and respected him for so long... but in love with him? I never bought it. If anything, I got the feeling she was dating him cause she felt sorry for him being so isolated.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2014