NuTrek's Faulty Moral Compass

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Brutal Strudel, Jan 23, 2014.

  1. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah I think this probably sums it up. It was the tone of the scene that was wrong for me. But it is a trope that crops up in many movies because movie-goers love to see villains get their cumuppance. It should come as no surprise that many people have no problem with the scene - they are the audience for whom it was intended.
     
  2. Brutal Strudel

    Brutal Strudel Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Which is why, in my version, Uhura breaks through his Vulcan rage by invoking Kirk--the Kirk who listened to Spock and decided not to summarily execute the man who killed the closest thing Kirk ever had to a father.
     
  3. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In other words, if we disagree with you about the scenario, we're the type of audience that cheers at kewl 'splosions and wets our pants with laughter when someone farts on screen.
     
  4. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    This exactly.
     
  5. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Okay, while Pauln6's comment might be read as condescending generally, an exaggerated response of this sort really isn't very helpful. There had to be a better way to make that point.
     
  6. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, obviously not, if that's your interpretation of the scene. :techman: I think you're being more judgmental than I am about other people's opinions. :p I simply meant that the writers didn't come up with their idea in a vacuum. People like bloodthirsty heroes. I do too. However, I am glad that STiD back pedalled away from that path.

    Also - I laugh (loudly) at all the Scary Movie spoofs. :guffaw: Don't knock fart jokes.
     
  7. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    it was the deliberate exaggeration and sarcasm that helped MAKE the point, though;) But your reprimand is taken.
     
  8. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Irony is ironic.
     
  9. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I guess I just don't see how killing an opponent in battle who is a genocidal war criminal after offering to let him surrender is "bloodthirsty," though. Kirk is a member of an organization that at least has military duties. He MUST have expected to have to go into battle and possibly kill those who pose a threat.
     
  10. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ah yes, sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that it was. I simply meant that fans of bloodthirsty heroes would not bat an eyelid at Kirk's actions and would very likely applaud them. And that's not to say that they're the only people who would applaud them.

    While I love Wolverine as a character, I used to get sick and tired of the perpetual focus that was placed on him above other X-men. The guy was everywhere because it was 'cool' to be violent. I usually think it's braver of writers NOT to pander to that 'baser' instinct because this is Star Trek. The Spectre of the Gun keeps echoing. But maybe I'm just reliving my childhood.
     
  11. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

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    You are entitled not to like the new movies for what you consider 'moral defects' with regards to TOS and TNG, but remember that you're in the minority about the movies as far as what you feel is concerned.

    Just sayin'.

    Oh, BTW, a reminder about what the movies have been;

    [/QUOTE]


    I would also add that the pilot episode of TOS also was action-adventure with some Pew!Pew! in it as well, and that TOS was pitched as an action-adventure show by Roddenberry & Co. This constant 'it's cerebral' thing is getting tiresome.
     
  12. Brutal Strudel

    Brutal Strudel Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    "We like explosions."
    --DEVO
     
  13. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As Rory said - they are great fun for what they are and very popular. However, it doesn't automatically follow that they would have been less fun and less popular if they'd had a better grasp of scientific principles, a few more women here and there, and bit more Federation idealism (they even go so far as to imply that Federation idealism is weak when Pike is recruiting Kirk - it always reminds me of that Admiral giving Homer Simpson command if his ship... :devil:)
     
  14. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This was just horrible writing. Better to get a chuckle from a "new" audience than write something meaningful for the characters.

    Kirk offers help - check
    Spock not agreeing? WTF?
    Kirk unloading on the Narada - WTF?
    Spock not correcting him - WTF?
    Kirk or Spock or ANYONE else on the damn bridge not keenly aware of their proximity to the big FRAKIN BLACK HOLE...no one on the bridge is thinking about the safety of the ship and crew???

    WTF!!!!! [​IMG]

    It's just juvenile writing to a short attention span audience.

    They should have been sucked through with the Narada for being dumb asses.
     
  15. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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  16. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I agree on Wolverine-highly overrated, and he does get the attention for exactly the reasons you wrote. He's a cliche violent, '80s "bad boy," anti-hero. It's also why Superman is not considered "cool," because he's not violent or edgy enough.

    But again, Kirk is fighting a battle here, and he's a Human soldier in uniform chasing down an enemy. He's not a vigilante acting unlawfully and he does offer Nero the option to surrender.
     
  17. Yanks

    Yanks Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    :rommie::techman:
     
  18. YARN

    YARN Fleet Captain

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    If you don't have ideas to offer and explore, you don't have sci-fi, but simply action-adventure in a technological setting.

    TOS, however it may have been "pitched," was not mere action-adventure, but had ideas to explore, and most often a point to make. A lot of TOS episodes are little morality tales that were snuck past network censors.

    Of course, the notion that Trek has not or should not have a significant action-adventure component is wrong-headed. As you stated, there has always been plenty of "pew pew," but to say that Trek should be cerebral is not to say that it should NOT have ANY action, but rather to say that the actions should not push out interesting ideas in favor of more sensual pleasures. Trek, at it's best, should be a balance of both.
     
  19. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    We are going around in circles I agree. There is a grey area in the middle here where some people think there was ample justification and others think other options could have been explored. But I guess that's the very definition of IDIC.

    With great power comes great... oh wait - wrong reboot.
     
  20. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    OK, so here's a way out of the "circle:"


    for those who OBJECT to what nuKirk did, what SPECIFIC differences would you include in the scene


    What should he have done?

    -not fired at all(perhaps have the movie make clear that the ship was going to be destroyed FOR SURE, 100%?)

    - repeatedly beg Nero to pretty please surrender with a cherry on top?;)

    -have NuKirk try to beam over to the Narada and drag Nero bodily to transport him away?

    -have nuKirk show more regret at the situation?