Not real Star Trek

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by King Daniel Beyond, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. OBXTrekkie

    OBXTrekkie Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    IMO, whatever series/movies/episodes stir that "This is why I love Star Trek" emotion in me, are real Trek for me. The rest is just the rest. :)
     
  2. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Its not just TOS, I was watching TNG yesterday and didn't realise how many times the camera just zoomed on Troi's breasts. I never really noticed it before.

    I remember that episode where Wesley was sentenced to death where everyone was minimally clad.

    And there was 7of9 and T'Pol's and Kira's one piece suits.

    And there was T'Pol stripping off for 'therapy massages'. OK and the decontamination episodes of ENT.
     
  3. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    All of it is Real Star Trek. I'll revisit what I like the most (TNG, DS9, VOY, the first 9 movies) more than what I don't like. This whole thing of Real vs. Fake comes across as a waste of time argument.
     
  4. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Only Threshold. The Cage was just a ripoff of Forbidden Planet. :evil:

    Now, now ... when he peeks, it's in the line of duty.


    Supposedly. :devil:
     
  5. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    For my own personal canon, I accept all the series (including TAS, but excluding "These Are The Voyages", that was just a bad dream I had) and TOS/TNG films--most of which I can live with (bad science and all) except of course for TATV (though Nemesis is a bit iffy).

    For me the NuTrek films aren't part of my canon, since its an alternate timeline/universe. Even the events such as the destruction of Romulus and the disappearance of Spock occurred in another alternate universe so NuTrek is therefore an alternate-alternate universe. In my canon, Romulus is whole and working on better relations with the UFP, thanks to the work Spock continues to do towards reunification.

    The novelverse also doesn't count within my canon, except for the Andorian sexes and the slow extinction of their species.
     
  6. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Exactly how I feel about it, very well said. :techman:

    Bob
     
  7. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Thank the gods of good television that there were more people in charge of these stories than Gene.
     
  8. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Isn't that what Into Darkness was? Kirk's decision not to execute Khan from afar (also a statement about the US' current warfare tactics) qualifies. His speech at the end spells it out:

    There will always be those who mean to do us harm. To stop them, we risk awakening the same evil within ourselves. Our first instinct is to seek revenge when those we love are taken from us, but that's not who we are.
    Violence:

    -Extended torture scenes in "The Empath"

    -Torture in "Patterns of Force"

    -Wrath of Khan, the Ceti Eel torture sequence

    -Picard's degridation and torture in "Chains of Command"

    -Close-up detail shots of crew mutilations by the Borg in First Contact.

    -Archer's airlock torture of a pirate, and later his pirate attack on a defenceless vessel during Enterprise's third season.

    -Conspiracy, Remmick's entirely unnecessary exploding head. Note that in comparison, Into Darkness never actually showed Admiral Marcus' head beind destroyed by Khan, nor any detail on Carol's broken leg.

    Sex:

    -Beverly writhing in pleasure in "Sub Rosa"

    -DS9's mirror universe, which turned almost every female into lipstick lesbian or (in Kira's case) a permanently horny bisexual.

    -Voyager, with Seven of Nine's unnecessary catsuit.

    -Enterprise, with it's infamous decon chamber scenes, T'Pol's Pon Farr, T'Pol and Trip's massage sequences, T'Pol's bare ass, T'Pol and Hoshi being seduced by a Xindi agent, which featured much unnecessary groping.
    By your own rules, how is that so? Do you ignore the things I have cited above?
     
  9. Isolinear

    Isolinear Commander Red Shirt

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    Glad I'm not the only one. I don't get the blind Roddenberry-ideals worship. Yes, it's part of Star Trek, but for me it doesn't define it.

    To me, Star Trek is any good SF story that fits in the greater Star Trek-universe that came before.

    Is nuTrek real Trek? Yyyes.....but only just. It's very "style over substance", when it should be the opposite.
    And wiping out the Prime-universe timeline still doesn't feel right. (yes, I know they say the old timeline still exists.)
    Oh well, I guess I'm still in the Bargaining stage. I will reach Acceptance eventually ;)

    Also, I don't consider the Videogames and Novels real Trek. (I never read novels based on TV-shows or Movies. Feels too much like a cheap money grab to be worth my time.)
     
  10. TheGoodStuff

    TheGoodStuff Commander Red Shirt

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    I love how many of you are totally overlooking the point. I now have 'Daniel' listing scenes where there was a bit of violence. :guffaw:

    I did not say there should be NO violence or titilation, thats absurd. To quote...myself "It must not simply be about..."

    Hell, DS9 is my favourite and there are plenty of battles that are epic: however that booms and explosions were not simply the be-all end-all of the show. People died, people were injured and the consequences and ethics of those conflicts were explored.

    Sure Voyager had a catsuit, but Jeri Ryan was a fantastic actor and she had numerous fantastic episodes. The sexualisation is forgivable.


    Also, im not worshiping Roddenberry, that is also absurd. What I appreciate though is the enlightened humanity, the peaceful future....the themes he installed into the show along with many others.
     
  11. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Hey I was traumatized by The Empath. Don't knock my pain. That stuff was freaking awful.
     
  12. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    And there go the goalposts. Note also how you ignore the themes of Into Darkness.

    Wormhole's assesment would appear to be the true one:
     
  13. Isolinear

    Isolinear Commander Red Shirt

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    By that definition, Galaxy Quest is a better Star Trek movie than Insurrection and Nemesis combined. (It really is)
     
  14. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    There's a good chance that every anti-war movie will also be a good war movie: it needs to convey something about the experience of war in order to make its point. However, it's still possible to make distinctions between the two genres based on how the violence is presented and contextualized, whether it emphasizes style, action, or futility.

    The fact that X number of other episode or films in the franchise have violence does not render them all the same: that moral equivalency doesn't hold. TheGoodStuff has every right to analyze the different films and episodes for how they present violence and use them to advance their narrative. And I think it's perfectly arguable that STID presents a voyeurism with respect to violent death that far exceeds what was shown previously in the franchise.
     
  15. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    That's violence inflicted upon our protagonists. But wasn't the point that our protagonists only use violent means as a last resort?

    You got a point here. However this example (and "The Man Trap" from TOS) rather strikes me as the proverbial exception from the rule and is most definitely not a Roddenberry Star Trek trademark unless you want to violently force the issue. ;)

    Star Trek was not about "turning the other cheek" but this "eye for an eye" retribution theme that somehow started with ST II is not what Roddenberry had in mind, IMHO.

    After all it's not putting an end to conflicts but just prolongs these indefinitely (as it does in our real world).

    Bob
     
  16. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Please. The Empath was tame compared to the sadistic shit seen on TV today.

    Ever see a little show called Battlestar Galactica? Not the good 1978 version, I'm talking about Ron Moore's shitfest now. A show that cannot be put down or hated enough.

    The Empath was a lighthearted fantasy compared to that evil garbage.
     
  17. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    As a kid growing up in the 70s, I would skip The Empath when it came on. For that time and age, it was brutal.
     
  18. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    Ohhhh... There's such a fine line between stupid and, uh... clever...

    [​IMG]
     
  19. Smellmet

    Smellmet Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm sorry, but I don't consider the violence in STID to be as bad as the ceti eel scenes or the crew of the regula station strung up with their throats cut in TWOK, nowhere near in fact
     
  20. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Let's not forget space tinkerbell raping and impregnating Troi in The Child. ;)