Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Thread

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Defcon, May 15, 2014.

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Rate The Klingon Art of War

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  1. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    Well, yes, the qeS'a says that, and a true believer should live by that standard, but in practice I doubt many do, and even fewer when the Empire was at its expansionist height in the 23rd Century, when cloaks first became common (and when the traditionalist movement promoting devout attention to Kahless' teachings was only beginning to come back into vogue).

    I imagine very few people would refuse to use a tactical tool because of devout attention to religious texts - for one thing, they'd become increasingly irrelevant in the face of invention. So they'll find a way to justify why it's acceptable, to twist the rules so that to adapt and change is honourable even where logic would seem to suggest that it isn't. On top of that, the easiest way to remain honourable at all times is to declare whatever you do honourable. ;) Yes, the devout follower of Kahless would find that abhorrent, and totally contrary to the point, but I imagine Klingon society in general finds a compromise, a way to satisfy its desire to win with its supposed values which teach that to lose against worthy opponents is as honourable and satisfying as victory. The book does touch on something like this with the issue of energy weapons, and the changes their introduction brought, with the idea that the Klingon Empire was morally weakened and experienced the rot of dishonour being tied to the increased use of these non-traditional tools.

    Although I would like to see the novels touch on how a close follower of the teachings explained within this book justifies their use of cloaking, yes. :)
     
  2. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    What does the book say about disruptor use? I've always wondered about how Klingons regard projectile weapons versus melee weapons.
     
  3. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    It touches upon another period in Klingon history when the code of Kahless was waning in influence, around about the time that disruptors came into use.

    "Skolar's reign was one of decadence and corruption. The noble Houses of the Empire were more concerned with the acquisition of wealth than with...conquest...

    ...There are those who argue that the development of energy weapons was responsible for the decadence of Skolar's regime, as combat became too simple..."

    So, it would seem that Klingon society has been through this in the past - new realities that blur the path to honour and which are identified as contributing to a decline, or perceived decline, in honourable behaviour. The Klingons eventually accepted energy weapons - probably they had no choice once that genie was out of the bottle - and so their "pure" codes of conduct were stretched and adapted, one assumes, to compensate.
     
  4. publiusr

    publiusr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    Some great general advice wrapped in ST.

    And no need for a sweat lodge or gimmicks!
     
  5. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    Were energy weapons developed before or after the Hur'q invasion? I've never been clear on the rate of technological development on Qo'noS.
     
  6. Markonian

    Markonian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    If I got it right, the Klingons were at an medieval level when the Hur'q invaded.
     
  7. KRAD

    KRAD Keith R.A. DeCandido Admiral

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    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    I've always proceeded on the assumption that the Hur'q invasion led to a golden age of technological development in the empire, as they were determined to go to space and not allow themselves to be invaded and plundered like that ever again.
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    In A Choice of Futures I had Soval say that the Hur'q invasion gave the Klingons access to advanced weapons and warp drive before they were sophisticated enough to wield such technologies responsibly, as well as giving them a heightened hostility toward outsiders. But Soval was a proponent of non-interference and could've been slanting or simplifying the facts to serve that agenda.
     
  9. Enterprise1701

    Enterprise1701 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    So before the 14th century Klingons had zero concept of outer space, starships, and aliens? Woah.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2014
  10. KRAD

    KRAD Keith R.A. DeCandido Admiral

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    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    Well, Soval probably has a different definition of "responsibly" than others might. *wry grin* And the hostility toward outsiders is certainly the truth -- that remains into the 24th century.

    But I find the notion that the Klingons salvaged warp technology from the Hur'q to be absurd. The Klingons lost to the Hur'q, some of their great treasures plundered and stolen. I can't imagine they "got" anything, they just had to pay $50 and pick up the garbage. (Sorry, Arlo Guthrie reference. Moving on...) Besides, if they just stole the tech from the Hur'q, there's no way they would've been able to build an entire empire out of that unless they did a lot of the work themselves. Keep in mind that the Klingon Empire has been a thriving, powerful, multi-star-system empire for centuries. That means they've maintained that empire for all this time. That can't happen unless you've got smart people building things for you.


    Uhm, no -- they had plenty of concepts of all those things, they just never travelled to the stars prior to the Hur'q invasion. It's not like it's a given that a society is even going to want to travel to space. Hell, right now, our society has mostly lost interest in it......
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    But isn't that exactly what you established in The Art of the Impossible? As Memory Beta puts it, "Using captured Hur'q facilities and technology, Ch'gran oversaw the construction of a fleet of mighty warships, numbering seven in total, and on the anniversary of the Hur'q invasion, Ch'gran and the fleet ventured forth into space."


    Well, sure, but Europe built a pretty long-lasting empire using technologies obtained from the Mideast and Asia, like gunpowder, the magnetic compass, and the lateen sail. Just because they got the technology from elsewhere and had their own development jumpstarted by it doesn't mean they were incapable of learning to use it. But the Klingons are a spacefaring culture with a basically medieval social structure and a reverence for rather old-fashioned weapons and practices coexisting with space-age technology, which suggests that they got into space at a relatively earlier stage in their history than we did.


    The concept of outer space has been around since antiquity. Giordano Bruno posited inhabited planets around other stars in the 1580s. The term "starship" antedates 1926 and the term "spaceship" antedates 1880, but the first fictional portrayal of a journey to other worlds and encounters with their inhabitants was written by Lucian of Samosata in the 2nd century CE. Lacking the technology for space travel doesn't equate to lacking the concept of it.
     
  12. KRAD

    KRAD Keith R.A. DeCandido Admiral

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    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    As a starting point, yes, but they didn't just take warp drive from the Hur'q and turn into an interstellar empire.
     
  13. Markonian

    Markonian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    KRAD, I only see one way to solve the mystery of Klingon technological development - come back and write a novel. :klingon:
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    Although on p. 82 of TAoTI, you have Gul Monor express precisely that belief. Granted, Monor is a moron, but it shows that there are people in the Trek universe who believe that to be the case, so Soval believing it isn't out of the question. And the fact that people believe that suggests that it might be a distortion or simplification of the truth.

    Also, the story related in the prologue seems to say that both the Hur'q invasion and the launching of the first warp fleet occurred within Ch'gran's lifetime. It doesn't actually mention captured Hur'q technology like the Memory Beta entry does, but it stands to reason that there was enough technology left by the Hur'q to allow the Klingons to reverse-engineer warp drive and other advanced technologies from it.

    Plus it makes sense; the Klingons don't seem to be a culture that holds theoretical sciences in a lot of regard, and their technology doesn't seem to have advanced that quickly; they're not much farther along in the 24th century than in the 22nd, even using nearly the same ship designs. So it's plausible that they reverse-engineered Hur'q warp technology rather than inventing it independently. No, they didn't just collect a bunch of intact warp drives and begin using them, but they got the knowledge of warp drive, the necessary theoretical and technological underpinning for a warp-capable civilization, from what the Hur'q left behind.
     
  15. KRAD

    KRAD Keith R.A. DeCandido Admiral

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    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    Fair points, all, but I specifically put those words in Monor's mouth because he is, as you say, a moron. :)


    Yeah, that makes sense. The Hur'q technology gave them a baseline to work from, and the Hur'q invasion gave them the motivation to develop that technology, which they were never really eager to do in the first place.
     
  16. Johnhead99

    Johnhead99 Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Non-Prose: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    I disagree old sport. Articles of The Federation is in my top 5. It's spectacular.
     
  17. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, KRAD or anyone else knowledgeable in tlhIngan Hol, but qeS is most typically translated to "advice", yes? And 'a' is an interrogative?

    So qeS'a' is "Advice?"

    As in, "Give me advice. Generally. Relevant to everything. To life as a whole.", or "You want advice? The only advice you need?"

    Is that along the right lines? So it's really less The Art of War (K'Ratak isn't sure about "art") and more "The Book That Has The Answer To Life".
     
  18. Terengo

    Terengo Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    In this case, -'a' is used in its augmentative meaning, amplifying the idea of advice. So qeS'a' means something like "major/important/supreme advice". An English equivalent might be "counsels".
     
  19. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    Much obliged! :)
     
  20. Kertrats47

    Kertrats47 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Non-Novel: The Klingon Art of War by K.R.A. DeCandido Review Threa

    Just posted my review of this one. Not much to say other than how happy I was to read new Keith R.A. DeCandido Trek, and that it was pretty great!