No respect for the character of Scotty in "Relics"?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by golakers, Aug 10, 2008.

  1. golakers

    golakers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just watched "Relics" tonight. I was so excited for this crossover when it first aired in 1992. Watching it again, I'm reminded what a bummer this episode turned out to be even though it had much potential.

    Ron Moore sure threw out some TOS love with the references to Kirk and especially the real fanboy references to "By Any other Name". "Elaan of Troyus" and a couple other old episodes.

    However, Moore didn't reference that Scotty was a rockstar engineer and a known part of Starfleet history. I was disappointed that Geordi and Picard didn't immediately recognize Scotty. A little recognition and props for being the legendary "miracle worker" It seemed like they knew Kirk and the Enterprise, but Scotty got sold short in terms of name recognition.

    Did anyone else feel this way? It made the whole useless old guy story line even more depressing.
     
  2. Kegek

    Kegek Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You mean the guy who exaggerated his estimates to make himself appear more competent? Yeah, we had that discussed.

    I thought the episode handled Scotty very well. He's a popular character from the original series - which doesn't necessarily make him to be an unparalled and legendary engineer. This episode could have easily been pure fanservice with everyone on TNG simply gushing at Scotty's presence and begging him to regale them with plotlines from the sixties show, but it managed to tell a story about Scotty and how the elderly can feel obsolescent in modern society. Scotty's exactly what the title suggests - a relic; and his achievements are ancient history.
     
  3. sbk1234

    sbk1234 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^^^Agreed. There would be no drama or interest if everybody was worshipping the ground he walked on. Part of the point - at least what I got - was that Scotty himself wasn't willing to accept that he had to change and adapt to his new situation. He WANTED everyone to kiss his butt, and got upset when they wouldn't, such as Geordi wanting to do his job instead of listening to someone who is 70 years behind the technology. When Picard mentioned studying up, Scotty refused.
    That this story was told with a character who was loved and revered by so many fans made the point even more emotionally.
     
  4. Sheliak

    Sheliak Commodore Commodore

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    Who built the Dyson Sphere?
     
  5. Captain Leslie

    Captain Leslie Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    What....the vacuum cleaner?
     
  6. Finn

    Finn Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, come on. Don't be such a geek :lol:. It was never shown how well known Scotty is in history. Kirk and Spock are probably the only ones from TOS that is revered and well respected in Picard's time. Scotty and McCoy may be familiar to those in their respective fields. Sulu, Chekov and Uhuru probably have been forgetten by most.
     
  7. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    Geordi probably skipped class when they talked about Scotty...same as he skipped class when they talked about how to eject the warp core.
     
  8. votd

    votd Commander Red Shirt

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    Surely all the chief engineers of starships are miracle workers the trouble they always get in; why would Scotty be remembered as anything special?
     
  9. number6

    number6 Vice Admiral

    I thought Geordi was a complete douche. He should have been a little more respectful.
     
  10. Red Ranger

    Red Ranger Admiral Admiral

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    The whole point of the ep was how elders don't get respect. But as for totally dissing Scotty, I disagree. First off, Geordi is highly impressed with how Scotty rigged the transporter on the Jenolan to keep the patterns from reappearing. Second, Geordi reassures Scotty that he's still useful later on by saying something to the effect that just because something is old doesn't mean it isn't useful. Third, you see two engineers who do respect each other's gifts and have admiration for one another after averting a crisis together. So sure, Scotty does get a bit dissed, but it's not complete. After all, any of us, if we had been "asleep" for 80 years, would probably be seen as the village idiot if we awoke in the year 2088. -- RR
     
  11. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    I also have to wonder...would even somebody studying engineering at the U.S. Naval Academy know the name and accomplishments of the chief engineer of the WWII aircraft carrier U.S.S. Enterprise?
     
  12. Keith1701

    Keith1701 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    but Scotty was a "miracle worker" for sure.:);)
     
  13. Finn

    Finn Vice Admiral Admiral

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    How do we know he was the best engineer in Starfleet. For all we know, there was another ship with a chief engineer that performs even better than Scotty did for Enterprise.
     
  14. golakers

    golakers Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You all made some very good points. Thanks for the feedback. I just re-watched it after reading the responses and see watch you're talking about.

    Thanks.
     
  15. CaptainStoner

    CaptainStoner Knuckle-dragging TNZ Denizen Admiral

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    I like this Scotty episode better than the Spock one. A stronger, simpler story. One question I have is, what's become of McCoy by then? It's not likely that Data would have forgotten the association, so it may be that McCoy dies between Farpoint and S5 TNG. He was depicted as extremely frail so it may well be.

    I agree it was necessary for Geordi and the others to be a bit insensitive, and Scotty a bit stubborn, which of course was no stretch - for the story to work.
     
  16. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Clean Old Mod Moderator

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    THEY SAVED McCOY'S BRAIN!!!!!!!
     
  17. Red Ranger

    Red Ranger Admiral Admiral

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    BRAIN AND BRAIN! WHAT IS BRAIN?!?
     
  18. Rÿcher

    Rÿcher Fleet Captain

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    is that a trick question?:guffaw:
     
  19. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Scotty was just another engineering in a long line of engineers throughout Starfleet's history. He's sepcail to "us" as fans but in the universe of Trek he's just another engineer and nothing extra-ordinary.

    I, kind-of, liked how it was suggestes Scotty was less "miracle worker" than he was "a good manipulator." It's ludicrous to think that even the very best engineer can "break the laws of physics" and make impossible things happen or things happen in much shorter time. Makes pretty good sense that Scotty fudged his talents here and there some. That's just work-place politics that I'm sure we all do from time to time.

    But I'll never agree that what Geordi does in this episode is wrong. Geordi was very patient with Scotty and Scotty pushed himself onto Geordi too far.

    When Geordi first meets Scotty he's genuinely impressed with the man and seems willing to talk with him after the trip to sickbay Geordi has to go off to work on the analysis and Scotty invites himself along! Only to be stopped by Crusher for needing to rest. Geordi then, kindly, says that he's very busy but that he'll give a tour later.

    Later on, Scotty marches into Engineering proclaiming he's there to HELP them! As if he's going to be of ANY help. The Enterprise is fully staffed, not under any emergency and is just doing routine duties and analysies. They hardly need someone with 70-year old engineering knowledge to march in there and start "helping" them.

    Geordi kindly tells Scotty they don't need his help but Scotty doesn't take the hint and the proceedes to messing with settings in the computer, opens the dilithium chamber and then even has the stones to question LaForge's work which ends up being the breaking point.

    Scotty was, as Geordi says, "in the way." Geordi was busy and he didn't have time to do his work AND to stop Scotty from fooling around/fix his messes AND to explain the new technology to him. It wasn't the right time.

    Frankly, Scotty got what he deserved. If someone came into your job and started asking you questions, messing with stuff, and questioning your ability to down your OWN JOB and they were 70 years behind the curve for your job you'd probably get pretty upset too.

    Geordi would've gladly shown Scotty around engineering, told him about all the new technologies and techniques at a better time. Scotty was just impatient and his timing was way off. But Scotty gets all haughty and then leaves Geordi with a send-off that makes Geordi feel like crap. ("I'll leave ya to your work Mister LaForge!")

    Scotty was way more in the wrong in this situation. The crew was busy. When Picard got off duty HE sought out Scotty to talk with him. So apparently the crew wasn't of the mentality to leave Scotty on his own. They just had work to do.
     
  20. JM1776

    JM1776 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You make a solid argument, but for this:

    Doesn't that mean Geordi could have left the task to his subordinates and shepherded a lonely old man around?

    In addition, Scotty's a captain—just short of flag rank, and almost certain to be awarded it the moment he arrives at a starbase. You don't tell a venerable officer he's "in the way." You might excuse yourself and summon Captain Picard to do so, but ... you don't bitch at a man who ranks you by two grades and a century, no matter how irritated you are.