NFL 2013 Off-Season Discussion

Discussion in 'Sports and Fitness' started by Use of Time, Feb 5, 2013.

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  1. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

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    You are ridiculous.

    If he is unavailable during the season, due to the way contracts in the NFL work, he is still owed his full season salary. If they cut him now, they don't pay him anything and only take the cap hit (which is $43k).
     
  2. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    I understand how the contract works, but since his entire salary is only like $500k/year, it's pretty firmly in the "who gives a shit" range for whether you have to take the salary cap hit. Since it would fall under 'detrimental conduct' policy anyway, you'd likely recover a little of that, plus not have to pay him going forward if you cut him, so the financial concern is really bupkis. If he was a $10 Mil/year player, you'd have a point. Since he's playing on a 4 year, $2 mil (total) contract, who cares?

    Not in the top 5 reasons why you'd cut or keep him. He was a 7th round pick, and is being paid like one. Pats aren't up against the cap anyway.

    Want to argue morality, or 'sending a message' or whatnot, you can at least discuss it. Want to argue the money, it just comes across as weak. May as well just rest your laurels on "I hate the Pats, so if it means they lose a useful player, they should do it immediately!" and stop trying to couch it in arguments that don't work...
     
  3. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    Rough count, but there were something like 14 arrests for either DUI or drug possession in the NFL since the Superbowl, only a couple of those led to player being cut, and usually because the player sucked and was already on the bubble anyway. So this was hardly an aggregious or shocking event (unlike a murder arrest) which forces a quick and hasty decision.

    Hell, of the 35-40 arrests since the Superbowl (sadly, only the 5 months or so), the rest were on weapons charges or assault/violence related issues. Surely I can go back through this thread and see you advocating for cutting those guys for both conduct and cap reasons, right? Why so drilled-in on the Pats players?

    Your location just says California, which team do you follow? We could talk about the 49ers' Ahmad Brooks assaulting a teammate with a beer bottle (THAT would be a big cap hit, and is a move obvious on-field issue), or could talk about Al Netter, the practice squad player who got popped for DUI and is still on the roster fighting for a spot.

    Still conflicting reports about whether the Chargers' Ryan Mathews was involved in a recent bar fight. No good recent examples, but Vincent Jackson got a big DUI case a couple years ago and got less than a slap on the wrist.

    Could go in-depth on the Raiders, but we all know their deal. As an easy example, though Darrius Heyward-Bey got a DUI last year, nothing done there.

    Anyway, just curious as to why you're so up in arms on this one, and so worried about the 450k difference in salary cap on a team that doesn't have cap issues...
     
  4. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

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    I'm from Indiana, and I am a Colts fan.

    You probably could find examples of me advocating that assholes get cut from the NFL. It's an entertainment league, and I'm not entertained by assholes. Jamarcus Russel. Dez Bryant. Justin Blackmon. Dante Stallworth. I'm an Alabama fan on the college side (went to middle school/high school there), and I'll even say that Rolondo McClain was an idiot and deserved what he got.

    On the flipside, you could probably also find examples of me advocating for the reinstatement of Michael Vick, because he did his time and has been rehabilitated and released.

    It's not my fault the Pats have had the two most recent high profile incidents. I even brought up in my previous post about the Broncos executives (two of them! and I like the Broncos!) arrested for DUI, yet apparently you feel that I primarily only attack the Patriots.

    Admittedly, I do hate the Patriots and wish all the ill-will in the world towards them.

    I'm not "up in arms", in fact you're the one acting so emotional on this issue. Honestly, I'm bored arguing with you on this so I'll let you fly off the hook against me one more time and I won't reply.
     
  5. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    That's a good run down and it really shows parallels to business practices outside of the sports community as well. Main point being that you should try to make yourself irreplaceable. If you aren't performing then the organization is less likely to give you a second chance for off the field issues. Expecting guys like Dez Bryant, Justin Blackmon, etc. to get cut for their issues as tighr suggests is totally unrealistic.
     
  6. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    Basically. And trying to hide behind the salary cap issue when he's a minimum salary guy seems pretty silly as well, as the Pats aren't in cap trouble, so can afford to wait if that's the worst of it...

    As for the 'high profile' part, Hernandez is obviously in a separate stratosphere on that one. Dennard is only 'high profile' because of the recent Hernandez thing. Without that, it would have gotten a quick mention and then just dropped.

    As for the Colts, plenty of examples, but tough to find a good high profile player to mention. Dominic Rhodes looks like the best one: Domestic Abuse in 2002 (not cut by team). Drunk Driving arrest in 2007 (not cut by team, despite per Tighr's insistance that teams should do so for these risky repeat offenders). Plenty of more recent examples, but no particularly high profile players involved. None of them were cut, however.

    NFL has a problem in general with players getting arrested, far above the stats for other sports leagues. The ~40 arrests since the Superbowl are a pretty bad statistic, and something that needs to be addressed. Maybe they need to start putting a low (not zero) tolerance clause in the contracts, with a screw up and you're out clause, including forfeiting a massive chunk of your money or something? Not going to be taken more seriously unless there's some sort of big penalty, and someone high profile takes the hit...
     
  7. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    Well the glaring one for the Colts could have been the Marvin Harrison issues back in 2008 where he was connected to a murder. Granted that one didn't stick and he didn't play the 2009 season.

    As far as Dennard is concerned, I believe he was expected to be a starter so the Patriots just waiting that one out is the most likely and reasonable expectation. He'll just have to deal with the legal issues and eat whatever the NFL decides to throw at him but cutting him shouldn't really be expected.
     
  8. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    Depends. The Hernandez thing DOES put a little wrinkle in it. Normally, not an event that on its own gets him cut, but because of the hyper-sensitivity at the moment, could be that they 'send a message' to players by making an example of him.

    Mostly just fucking stupid. get a driver, hire a limo, whatever. Especially since he's on probabation, and aware that the Pats are going to be pretty sensitive to people getting arrested at the moment. Dumb...
     
  9. Tiny Timby

    Tiny Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Unfortunately, the NFL used to even have a free, anonymous, no-questions-asked designated driver program (a player could call a hotline and arrange to be picked up, anywhere at anytime), but due to a lack of use, it was quietly scrapped last year.
     
  10. Scout101

    Scout101 Admiral Admiral

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    Sure the teams would be happy to help as well, plus, you know, they're basically all multi-millionaires, so $50 for a cab doesn't seem like a big deal...
     
  11. SmoothieX

    SmoothieX Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Can any of our lawyer friends here break down the Hernandez hearing today?

    Closest I ever got to law was an environmental law class I took in college. Not much about murder in the Clean Water Act.
     
  12. Tiny Timby

    Tiny Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    The prosecution asked for additional time to prepare the case (because they're still sifting through all the crap of the double-homicide potentially linked to Hernandez in the aftermath of the initial arrest) prior to today's probable cause hearing -- they still have to present that evidence to a grand jury. The defense cried foul, saying they wanted to have the hearing now, and the judge said, "tough shit, they get 30 more days to prepare, your client goes back to his cell."
     
  13. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    I'm basing my information on two minutes of ESPN, so it's probably not completely accurate.

    The defendant is entitled to a court hearing to determine if there is probable cause for a trial. The Prosecution said they weren't ready for the hearing yet, so they got a continuance to do it another day.

    It might be possible to have a Grand Jury determine probable cause instead of a Judge at a court hearing, in which case, they'll do that (or they might have to do both). They haven't gone to a Grand Jury yet either. I don't want to speak for Massachusetts law to say it can be done that way.

    ETA: More or less what Timby said.
     
  14. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

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    I apparently got up to date on this "Drew Brees is a bad tipper" controversy a little late (sorry, I don't follow the NFL religiously during the off-season). If you're not familiar with the story, Drew Brees left a $3 tip on a $74 tab at a restaurant. The catch (and was not originally reported)? It was a takeout order, and the employee who got the tip (probably a fully paid kitchen staffer, not a waiter/waitress) should be lucky to have gotten any tip at all.

    For the record, I don't tip on takeout orders. Unless the food is ordered from my table and brought out to me, there was no "service" taking place.
     
  15. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    Riley Cooper is an idiot but I've about had my fill with the manufactured outrage of the media the last week. Some of his teammates will get past it and others won't. Time to move on. The sensitivity training is such a CYA (cover your ass) move it's almost insulting. I've been in locker rooms long enough to know how people like him operate. He is an ignorant moron that said something racist. What he said was ridiculous but I'd be willing to bet that he doesn't harbor hatred for the African American race. It will be interesting to see how he is assimilated back into the team. That's a poor explanation but I can't explain it any better than that. Looking back on the teams I played for growing up it blows my mind how much casual racism got tossed around without anybody batting an eye.

    Herm Edwards had a good interview this week when he discussed how he forbid music with racist terms in the locker room and didn't tolerate any racially charged phrases which included players of the same race using them on each other. I think it takes a top to bottom sweep from team leadership to manage a locker room where racism is a non-issue.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2013
  16. tighr

    tighr Commodore Commodore

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    This is pretty much my feeling on this as well. This is beyond a non-issue, and that word only has power because certain people choose to empower it. Unfortunately, I am not black and therefore have no power to change things.

    I am curious though, why is there no other racial slur in the English language that has anywhere NEAR the controversy as that one? None, not a single one.
     
  17. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    For what it's worth, the restaurant I used to work for paid the to go employees 4 dollars an hour so they did depend on tips to make a living wage. It wasn't clearly articulated to the customers so I didn't blame them for not knowing. There was a tip jar, but it kept getting stolen. I felt bad for the employees either way, though. Working really hard for no tip in a tip-based job kind of sucks.
     
  18. Yoda

    Yoda Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If I were Drew Brees, someone else would be picking up my god damned takeout and under their god damned name. #personalassistant
     
  19. archeryguy1701

    archeryguy1701 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^From what I read, this is actually a restaurant that Brees visits regularly. He's always getting food there and he's even taken pics and signed autographs for the staff. So my question is... if you someone big and famous like that who always comes to your venue, is always super cool, and normally gives you nothing to gripe about, why would you publically call him out and create a pseudo-controversy over this? If I was Brees, I would stop going there. He obviously can't trust them to not behave like dicks.
     
  20. Danny99

    Danny99 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Pretty much my feelings as well. If we could just call the man an idiot and move on, our lives would be so much easier.

    The whole Brees thing is just silly. It's a takeout order, who tips on takeout?
     
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