Next movie, let the woman wear pants.

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Dusty Ayres, Dec 1, 2009.

  1. Rusty0918

    Rusty0918 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    My suggestion for the sequel is put another major female crewmember on board who wears trousers (chief of security, lieutenant commander, Anna Torv?). They can keep the short skirts for Uhura and some of the background women (for you folks who drool over them).
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2009
  2. RobertScorpio

    RobertScorpio Pariah

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    I have no problem with this as long as UHURA is featured more. I think you miss the point as to why she is wearing the skirt in the first place; To sell tickets and to ramp up the 'sexy' element of a franchise that is in DIRE need of it.

    Rob
     
  3. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    We all got your point several posts ago, Rob (if not several months and several threads ago. The "uhura's underwear" thread was posted by you more than seven months ago, citing just one example to illustrate how long you've been pounding away at this, in this forum alone.) You can put Teh Great Big Hammer of Obvious Messages™ down now; it became boring a long time ago.

    And "gooberish"? Come on.

    That's a poor choice of words on your part, and nothing else. It's quite possible to talk about the movie without putting insulting labels on groups of fans who might just also be your fellow posters; suppose you work on that instead of continuing to pursue your long-running (never mind condescending) crusade to liberate the minds of those Trek fans you've more than once called sexually repressed, 'K?

    Now would be a great time to start.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
  4. RobertScorpio

    RobertScorpio Pariah

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    Msharak..my old friend strikes again. Your continual harassment of me is fun, and ever entertaining. It makes coming into the XI movie forum, or whatever it is now, so much fun...I am so glad that I have my own moderator who actually researched ALL my posts. I love you man!!! Or...should I say...I love "THE MAN"...

    Rob
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2009
  5. seigezunt

    seigezunt Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's what the pasties and tassles are for.
     
  6. RobertScorpio

    RobertScorpio Pariah

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    I think their THONGs have chevrons on them...

    Rob
     
  7. Rusty0918

    Rusty0918 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    RobertScorpio:
    There are also other ways of doing "sexy" in a franchise than having people walk around in revealing outfits all the time. Do a swimming pool scene or something like that. I know you folks love your skin and your kinky titillation, but going all-out objectifying women isn't good. The main reason they did it was mostly for consistency...to you folks and others, it's like a Dukes of Hazzard episode where Daisy Duke doesn't wear her "DaisyDukes." It's OK to have some sexy in it. They are iconic to some extent. But don't overdo it.

    OK and here's another one of your quotes:
    And you too, seigezunt:
    You don't know how sick that makes me.

    M'Sharak:
    I'm with M'Sharak here: Defending your titillating views by smearing others isn't very nice. Not all us men are fans of the miniskirts as uniforms, but that doesn't mean we're "sexually repressed" or whatever labels you try to pin on us. So cut it out with your ad hominem smearing.
     
  8. Sabataage

    Sabataage Commander Red Shirt

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    I think the biggest difference between Star Trek XI and most other sci fi shows where women sport revealing attire is that, unlike those other shows, I still respect Star Trek on repeated viewing. What I mean is, I'm not embarassed by its presence in the movie. I think its because Zoe Saldana is a real actress and not a swimsuit model who was hired for her looks or because she was banging one of the producers.

    By casting a mediocre actress showing off ample skin, the filmmakers are telling their audience two things: one, they're too dumb to cast someone with talent, and two, they think the audience won't notice so long as she has cleavage. Using the lowest common denominator to promote interest in something just comes off as a pandering, cheap, insulting ploy. That's also one of the reasons I gave up on Voyager and ENT.

    With XI, it seemed like they were doing it as a reference to TOS (like the communicators on the Kelvin, like Chekov's accent, like the tribble on Scotty's desk, the green-skinned Orion babe, etc). So, while arguably that still makes it pandering, its a different kind of pandering that I can accept so ong as it doesn't get in the way of storytelling.
     
  9. Nightfall to-Ennien

    Nightfall to-Ennien Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Call me a caveman, but this is my view on the subject.

    The idea of the miniskirts being disrespectful baffles me. Women are seen in the film wearing pants as well as skirts, thus making it clear that Starfleet offers both variations, not to mention varying sleeve lengths, for their officers to wear. Logically, this implies that the women who wore the skirts and short/no sleeves chose to, presumably because they liked them. It is a matter of personal expression, and therefore I would take it as disrespectful had they NOT allowed their officers the choice of what to wear.

    As for the utility of the attire, all evidence thusfar indicates that the undershirt, slacks/skirt, tunic combo is shipboard wear meant to be comfortable and unencumbering in a climate-controlled environment. The few times we see people offboard-ship, they either got there in a huge hurry and thus likely didn't bother to change clothes, or actually are wearing other clothing, such as the skydiving harness/armor, the cold weather gear on Delta Vega, or the red and grey 'academy' uniforms on shore.

    Finally, the appropriateness of the uniforms. This is one point where I particularly take issue, as this clearly is an attempt to project already-archaic societal hangups into a period two hundred and fifty years into the future. Skirts that short are worn by women NOW without it being considered indecent, and as society (hopefully) becomes more evolved and mature, I expect that people will eventually be able to walk around naked if they so choose. Despite what some may think, if people simply are able to behave themselves, this would be harmful to no-one. These are Starfleet officers, not middle school students, they shouldn't have to have everyone wearing burqas in order to control themselves.

    Honestly, when the freaking FURRY starts talking about how people should be able to not behave like animals...
     
  10. npsf3000

    npsf3000 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Misconception actually - sex does no sell, in fact it has a tendency to reduce profits. The truth is sex sells sex.

    Seriously - look here - http://cinemaroll.com/cinemarolling/film-the-top-10-money-making-movies-of-all-time/ .

    I saw an article using brain scanning - turns out that adverts that use sex make people remember the sex, but completely forget about the product.

    Another study by an actor found out the fact I gave in the link - the films that make the money have a no, or low 'flirtatious' sex - like STXI.
     
  11. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    For my money...

    Women are not decorations. They do not exist to provide eye candy for men, and the way some people in this thread are acting -- as though women have some sort of obligation to be sexy for men -- is disgusting.

    However, let's be frank: Both sexes in ST09 were dressed so as to provide eye candy. So while I think it's a bit silly, let's be frank -- both sexes are being objectified.
     
  12. The Castellan

    The Castellan Commodore Commodore

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    Nothing wrong with it. Being sexy ain't a crime. Seems women are encouraged to be feminist, yet to be ashamed to be feminine. :rolleyes:
     
  13. The Castellan

    The Castellan Commodore Commodore

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    Oh...I doubt that. When I went to see Revenge of the Fallen, when Megan Fox first appeared, all the guys, and some of the girls ;), were hollowering and hooting. The words of movie critics mean NOTHING to me. I'm my own critic.

    And I'm not being sterio typical....I was at a sci-fi convention, and seeing how many people were taking pictures of the chicks that were there....all of them in skimpy costumes....we sci-fi fans enjoy skin.

    And trust me, if we took all sci-fi and made them girls cover up and trade the skirts for unflattering uni-sex outfits, won't be fun.

    Like Dr. Who...back in the 1960's, and today, all the girls were showing off skin....I loved seeing Wendy Padbury in that SUPER short black skirt she wore in several stories. :bolian:

    And don't get me started with Torchwood, I'll give you a coronary. :D
     
  14. Rusty0918

    Rusty0918 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    1. Well, I still stick with what the critics said about "Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen." The other point I mentioned DOES have merit, "Charlie's Angels: Full Throttle" didn't do so hot with critics or audiences (it did a decent job though but less than satisfying).
    2. Just because you saw a lot of them doing it doesn't mean they all appreciate it. Not all Sci-Fi fans go to T&A-laden conventions like you folks do. You're only enforcing my point about stereotyping by what you're saying. Your "brick wall thinking" annoys me. It's insulting.

    Oh...I doubt that. When I went to see Revenge of the Fallen, when Megan Fox first appeared, all the guys, and some of the girls ;), were hollowering and hooting. The words of movie critics mean NOTHING to me. I'm my own critic.

    And I'm not being sterio typical....I was at a sci-fi convention, and seeing how many people were taking pictures of the chicks that were there....all of them in skimpy costumes....we sci-fi fans enjoy skin.

    And trust me, if we took all sci-fi and made them girls cover up and trade the skirts for unflattering uni-sex outfits, won't be fun.

    Like Dr. Who...back in the 1960's, and today, all the girls were showing off skin....I loved seeing Wendy Padbury in that SUPER short black skirt she wore in several stories. :bolian:

    And don't get me started with Torchwood, I'll give you a coronary. :D
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  15. Red Ranger

    Red Ranger Admiral Admiral

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    Two words: As James Brown sang, Hot Pants! For the women and the men! (Maybe Kirk & Spock have to visit the hot pants planet, and have to greet their female monarch dressed in them -- oh, wait, that's TNG's Angel One! Ooppss!)
     
  16. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    I think that the question is, is female sexuality being depicted as something that exists to please men and/or represents an obligation on the part of women to please men, or is female sexuality being depicted as a liberating, empowering aspect of a woman's life that is just there and does not exist to please men?

    In other words -- is female sexuality depicted in a disempowering manner or in an empowering manner?

    It's like the difference between Seven of Nine on Star Trek: Voyager and Number Six on Battlestar Galactica. Number Six was more overtly sexual, but her sexuality was a part of her personality -- it wasn't something that existed solely to please men. Seven of Nine, on the other hand, was a deeply asexual character except insofar as she dressed in a manner that deliberately drew attention to her breasts and rear end -- reducing her sexuality to something that exists to provide eye candy for men.
     
  17. ROBE

    ROBE Commander Red Shirt

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    A while ago there was a British television programme that took modern nurses and took them back to a 1950s style hospital setting to see how nursing had changed.
    So the nurses switched their modern trouser uniforms for the old-fashioned skirted uniforms with hats. Quess what, once they got used to the "sexist" uniforms they actually liked them better than the modern uniforms as they felt more professional and feminine.
     
  18. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    And if that's what they choose, good for them. But I think we can all agree that it shouldn't be obligatory to dress in a gendered manner in what ought to be a gender-neutral profession.
     
  19. The Castellan

    The Castellan Commodore Commodore

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    Patients probably liked that, too. :bolian:
     
  20. Sector 7

    Sector 7 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    At our local hospital, we have twin sisters who are nurses. They both choose to wear the old-fashioned knee-length skirt and hat uniforms. In the family lounge many families were discussing them, most saying how much more professional they seemed.