New Ms. Marvel

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by A beaker full of death, Nov 8, 2013.

  1. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

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  2. milo bloom

    milo bloom Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Define failure. How many issues before cancellation?
     
  4. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    And will failure be due to being conservative, a feminist, a Muslim, or a woman?
     
  5. Saga

    Saga Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  6. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I agree that she'll be lucky to get 12 issues, but not for the reasons you cite.

    Also, we are already talking about this in the Marvel thread.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder if it will touch upon arranged marriage?

    Would her super powers make more or less desirable as the families are haggling about her dowry?
     
  8. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed. In fact, I'll say that people like Beaker are one of the most prominent reasons groundbreaking characters have such difficult publishing histories.

    Feminist title "Ms"? Dude.
     
  9. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Ace, you don't know me, so back the fuck up. There is nothing "groundbreaking" about a Muslim character. I DO object to superficially having her be Muslim without at all broaching all that entails, yes, which is something you should have gleaned from my original post. I'm all for groundbreaking. Randomly deciding a character is now gay, or black, or handicapped is not groundbreaking. How about dipping a little bit into what that identity actually means?

    ummm.... yes? Do you have any idea what that term was all about? Just WHY the very concept of "Ms." Marvel was so revolutionary at the time?
     
  10. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    Which isn't remotely notable now. "Ms." is the standard form of address.
     
  11. A beaker full of death

    A beaker full of death Vice Admiral Admiral

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    A failure to delve into any of those - and their interaction - on any meaningful level.
     
  12. LaxScrutiny

    LaxScrutiny Commodore Commodore

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    To me this is like saying Bruce Wayne's parent's getting killed is irrelevant to the current iteration of the character.
     
  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The article say the character admires Carol Danvers and that's why she takes the name. The feminist origins of the term aren't really relevant to her taking the name and neither are any ties she might have to conservative Islam. The picture of the character shows a woman is less than modest garb ( by fundamentalist Muslim standards ) so I doubt the character is in the chador/hijab camp.
     
  14. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    I know you, well, enough. Ace. :lol:

    What does it entail? She believes in god and calls it Allah. Big deal.

    It doesn't need to mean anything. It can mean something, but it needn't to. People are randomly gay, black, handicapped, or god-forbid Muslim. They are not some kind of issues-oriented Other. Just, you know, people. It's not like they a reason not to conform to 50s' white American eteronormative standards, right? Or they do?

    Pretty much. It was revolutionary. In the 50s. How about you join us in the new century?
     
  15. IndyJones

    IndyJones Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This. A hundred times this.

    It's one thing to decide you want a gay, black, handicapped, or Muslim character in your fiction. And they should be there, to some degree. The problem is inserting that character and having their gayness, blackness, handicap, or religion be the totality of their character.

    But having her be a normal person, who's trait can be remarked upon occasionally when relevant or interesting? That's what we should want out of these changes in society.
     
  16. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Since the writer is Muslim and a woman, I've feeling she just might be "dipping a little bit into what that identity actually means". Might be less random than you think.
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Religion almost never impacts on a characters motives or decisions in Marvel Comics.

    It's an award winning female Muslim author writing about a female Muslim character.

    That makes it more about niche than exploitation or titillation.

    Does anyone for a second think that Ben Grimm is kosher?

    Is Nightcrawler against condoms?

    here's a list....

    Some Top Super-Heroes

    Superman
    Methodist

    Spider-Man
    Protestant

    Batman
    Episcopalian/Catholic (lapsed)

    Wonder Woman
    Greco-Roman Classical Religion

    Aquaman
    Greco-Roman Classical Religion

    The Hulk
    Catholic (lapsed)

    Captain America
    Protestant

    Invisible Woman
    Episcopalian

    Nightcrawler
    Catholic

    Shadowcat
    Jewish

    Daredevil
    Catholic

    Hawkman
    Egyptian classical religion

    The Thing
    Jewish

    The Atom
    Jewish (lapsed)

    Zatanna
    Dianic Wiccan

    Elektra
    Greek Orthodox

    Oh look! Wonder Woman and Aquaman could carpool to church together. :)
     
  18. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Delve into what? She's not a white, male, Christian, what's to delve into unless being not so is somehow strange or not a character the audience can understand? It might be normal to be a woman, a Muslim woman, or just not white, male, and Christian? That's just crazy talk, ain't it?
     
  19. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    It's called a temple.
     
  20. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    WTH? The only reason she's being called Ms. is because she idolizes Carol Danvers, it has nothing to do with feminism.
     

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