New JJ Abrams interview

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by SalvorHardin, Dec 12, 2012.

  1. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    First Contact was totally meant for non-fans as evidenced by how far they went completely spelling things out. Take for example Picard's log near the beginning where he actually says "the Borg, our most feared enemy." Anyone in universe listening to the log would know who the Borg are so there's no need to describe them as "our most feared enemy." It's there for the benefit of an audience who doesn't know who the Borg are.

    Likewise, after the Borg succeed at altering the timeline, Picard takes time to explain (in-movie to himself, apparentally) that they must follow the Borg back and prevent them from changing history before actually giving the order to go through the temporal vortex. This makes no sense in-universe, wasting time talking to yourself about what needs to be done instead of giving the order to take care of business. But it does make sense if there's an audience that this needs to be explained to.

    There are other examples, the Enterprise is referred to as the Enterprise E more often in this movie than the Enterprise D was referred to as that in the entire seven year run of TNG. Hell, Lily's purpose on board the Enterprise was to give non-fans someone to relate two. But the above two are the ones that really grate on me.
     
  2. Anji

    Anji Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Everybody chill a moment. Nick Meyer said the same thing about TWOK, so this isn't the first time a ST director has uttered these words.

    However, J.J. does need to be careful not to alienate the fan base. Right now we are all this franchise has and if they plan on bringing new fans on board they will need us to start the chatter to bring them in.
     
  3. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They already have tens of millions of people - non-Trek fans - who went to see the last Abrams Star Trek. They're not relying on Star Trek fans to talk this thing up.

    Nor is there much chance of alienating the vast majority of people who call themselves fans, who are not obsessing and arguing over a director's interview this evening.
     
  4. Keeper

    Keeper Commodore Commodore

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    The fan-base endured THIS dressing down.
     
  5. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    I don't think there's much danger of that happening - not really.
     
  6. Bishop76

    Bishop76 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not to point out the obvious, but most people in the mainstream used to think of Trek fans as basement fanboy nerds. I think they're still trying to beat that drum to make sure people know it hasn't returned to being basement fanboy crap.

    You like something people used to (and still do, to be honest) consider weird/dorky/nerdy. Own it!

    Amen. Preaching to the choir. Trek was circling the drain to obscurity. Mainstreaming it saved it from - if not permanent death - at least a 20 year moratorium.
     
  7. Kelso

    Kelso Vice Admiral Admiral

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    As long as he keeps making kick-ass movies, he can say whatever he likes and I'll be happy.
     
  8. TorontoTrekker

    TorontoTrekker Vice Admiral Admiral

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    However, it was also heavily reported at the time that Meyer had done the necessary research, watching all of the episodes (and IIRC, it was Meyer who suggested making a sequel to "Space Seed" in the first place).

    There's been no indication that Abrams has done an equivalent amount of research on the show. There's no need for him to watch TNG, DS9, etc., so long as he's making movies featuring the TOS crew, but familiarity with the events of the universe he's rebooting would seem to be important.

    Now, I'm not saying he definitely hasn't watched all of the episodes -- and I know that Orci and Kurtzman definitely have, and from what I understand they could probably quote large chunks of dialogue -- but if Abrams has done this level of research, it hasn't been reported. And I think that's what makes his "I'm not a Star Trek fan" quote rankle the fanbase so.
     
  9. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    I thought it was Bennett who went through all the episodes and picked out Khan from Space Seed as the villain.

    Frankly I don't see watching all of TOS is needed to helm a Star Trek film. This quote by Meyer from the MA article on TWOK seems to support that:

     
  10. Mach5

    Mach5 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So basically, Nicholas Meyer got it right from the get go.
     
  11. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    And J.J. nailed the 2009 movie as a result.

    Nah. Half the base could scream bloody murder, but as long as the average schmoe likes it, the movie would do very well. They don't need the Star Trek fanbase, even though it's obvious they care about it. The kind of fans who sit at home and cry in anguish that their years of carefully cultivated canon knowledge is no longer needed can stay home out of vengeful spite, and it won't affect the box office on any appreciable level. They simply do not matter anymore, and they never did.
     
  12. Mach5

    Mach5 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Up until this part, you were actually spot on.
     
  13. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    No, I'm still right. The hardcore, anally retentive fans are and were never needed. The casual fan is more than enough to make a movie successful, as long as the story is more appealing to the casual fan.
     
  14. Mach5

    Mach5 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And what's that, like, 3% of the fan base? I misread your post, I thought you were taking about fans in general (sorry). Canon jihadists and such are mostly just pain in the ass. They rarely enjoy anything, and just want to ruin it for the rest of us.
     
  15. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Based on the evidence so far, Abrams has done all the "research" he needs to.

    No, Paramount doesn't need the kinds of folks - a real minority of fans, BTW - who are looking to be offended by interviews like this one. They're not needed at all.
     
  16. Mach5

    Mach5 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But they can always use snidey cynics. These make for a great audience.
     
  17. Devon

    Devon Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I can't speak for the other numbers, but ST09's box office intake in the U.S. was $259 Million before inflation. ST:TMP bested ST09 worldwide though. But then ST really wasn't doing superb worldwide in 30 years anyway.
     
  18. Rhodan

    Rhodan Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Hmmm, then, as a movie fan, I am not now exactly curious about this story of melodramatic terrorist guy which happens to be set in some strange geeky setting. Trailers have been funny though, so who knows?

    Seriously, even if I set aside obvious contenders for yet not shown in my country I want to see (Django unchained, Lincoln, The Master, etc.) I am more psyched for Hansel and Gretel: The Witch Hunters than for STID. But I´ll be obviously pleased if it´s actually a good film after all.

    And what is Abrams saying about fandom targeting is irrelevant. There are many variations among "Star Trek fans" anyway.
     
  19. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    He's talking about a specific subset though.
     
  20. BorgPhil

    BorgPhil Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    This is it. Look at this way, JJ wants to get as many people to watch the film as possible. He knows the Star Trek fans will watch it no matter what, so he doesn't need to encourage them to go and see it and we, as fans, should not be so precious as to not realise this.

    The people he does need to attract are the non-fans, so he tells them what he has to, to get them to watch it.

    When you look at all the nods to the old series in the last film, and the faithful way in which they have recreated so much of it, and the time the writers take to converse with the fans, you'd have to be absolutely bonkers to think this isn't a film for fans of Star Trek.

    Remember as well, that they could have totally pissed over every fan going by just rebooting everything in the last film, but they chose not to, by coming up with a convoluted time-travel story featuring multiple universes. Who did they do that for? Not the casual movie-goer.