New Book about TOS: These Are The Voyages

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by neoworx, Jul 13, 2013.

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  1. stcanada29

    stcanada29 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I'm always high on my love for TOS, dudes and dudettes. By all means don't buy the freakin' book if you're not inclined - but I have a copy and those pics are a tiny bit of everything that it's got!
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Keep digging that hole. :rolleyes:
     
  3. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    It would be interesting to see if the publisher considers releasing he next volume without the images. They might do well to include some nice artwork--something like what Bjo Trimble did years ago with the Concordance If they do so, it would be interesting to see if their sales are higher or lower than this first volume.

    Probably the overarching observation in all this is that, as I'm sure even the Collector would concede, filmclip restorers now have less incentive to continue to spend their time and resources in what would seem to be simply the thankless task of making the Collector's image-collecting life easier for him.

    "The turd is just a tiny bit of everything that the punchbowl's got!
     
  4. Nine of Four

    Nine of Four Commander Red Shirt

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    I've read more Trek books than I can count, and I'm hoping these three live up to their predecessors.
     
  5. stcanada29

    stcanada29 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Not cool, IMO, how you keep referring to legally reproduced images of William Shatner and TOS behind the scenes pics as turd, dude. I thought you were a fan of the series.
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I think the reason that you/they hang so tight to "legally" is that ethically you know you screwed the pooch.
     
  7. mb22

    mb22 Commander Red Shirt

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    For what its worth, the Compendium was an authorized publication from Pocket Books, which was owned at the time by Gulf + Western, owner of Paramount and Star Trek. I doubt that anyone was or is going to sue the owner of Trek, then or now.
     
  8. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    Okay, then: it is actually delicious, high-quality foie gras, caviar, and truffles that we have floating in the punchbowl. But I'm not certain that makes the product all that much more palatable.

    I thought you liked and respected and were a fan of the work these filmclip restorers have been doing.

    Thank you, Collector, wherever you are, for now wrecking that!
     
  9. stcanada29

    stcanada29 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I said "legally" because others here were strongly implying illegal reproduction of the pics was taking place -- or permission was required for those images - which isn't true. The truth is that photos which are in the public domain are free for all to republish. And it's not unethical for books to include images from the public domain. Done in the past, and will be done time and again in the future. And I don't see why you are so convinced startrekhistory was the source for all of these images versus all the old magazines, other film clips, books and fanzines in existence that are just as likely to have been sources? Is there a BW photo in the book that is unique to startrekhistory that was never printed elsewhere ... I kinda doubt that. Just considering the proliferation of these same images all over the web for years makes the existence of a single source less likely, IMO. I think it's possible some pics on startrekhistory share the same source as those in the book. Are you condemning every single photo in the book or just one or two? I actually thought I saw startrekhistory credited in there for some images.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2013
  10. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    "How do you know it's startrekhistory's turds? They might be turds from any number of sources. And besides: it's not illegal to dump turds into the punchbowl."

    I'm still not convinced that it was actually an asset to include these images in the book--no matter how entitled the publisher might have been to do so.
     
  11. Kinokima

    Kinokima Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Please note I am NOT an expert on this. I don't know how these photos were restored. But for example Criterion restores a lot of old films (including ones in the public domain)

    Anyone can release these films (and that is why you see multiple bad copies of film in the public domain) but Criterion owns the restored version of the film and only they can release that version.

    If the book is using the restored photos then I would have to side with Startrek history here. The original photos might be in the public domain but not the restored versions.

    Though I admit this isn't what is stopping me from buying the book, its the price tag and no e-book version.
     
  12. stcanada29

    stcanada29 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    The appearance of similar B&W public domain images in a book does not detract from the enjoyment fans derive from viewing large, full color versions on the web, IMO. And nothing prevents startrekhistory from monetizing the color versions if they wish to. If you go on ebay now, you can see some of these same rare images actually for sale there as 8" x 10" color prints from many different sellers. Folks have been actually selling them on ebay for years.
     
  13. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    Yes, now the restorers can monetize their pictures if they want to. Until the Collector came along, they used to restore and make new and interesting clips available to fans for free. Now the Collector will simply take any new "public domain" images the restorers make available and repackage them somehow to make money for himself. Fans used to be able to get newly restored pictures for free. Now, if it still happens at all, we'll have to buy them. That's the only way they can make it rewarding and worth their while now. It probably was fun for them, but now the Collector makes them look like chumps and doormats if they continue their efforts.

    Thank you, Collector, wherever you are, for single-handedly making my Star Trek fandom more expensive!
     
  14. stcanada29

    stcanada29 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Just pointing out that the option to monetize the pics was always available to startrekhistory, dude, whether they chose to do so or not.

    Your suggestion that the appearance of some small BW pics that they do not own and may not have been the source of in a new book has somehow changed the equation to make their work totally unrewarding is laughable.

    And, IMO, you are totally wrong in suggesting the book is all about monetizing those tiny pics. As others have said, those pics in no way compete with the high-res color versions freely available on the web. No-one would buy the book to see those 2" wide B&W pics.

    IMO, you've totally lost all proper perspective for the situation. I do think the photos slightly enhance the written content, as they seem to have been chosen to correspond with many of the anecdotes in the text - but they aren't the be all and the end all of this book as you would have everyone believe.
     
  15. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I don't think anyone here has lost perspective. We just think it's wrong that you are profiting from someone else work and didn't even ask if they minded. :shrug:

    If you can't understand our misgivings, then I don't know what else any of us can say. Except, that your cavalier attitude about the situation seems to have turned away many people who were willing to purchase the book.
     
  16. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    I'm not suggesting that it's all about monetizing the images; I'm suggesting that it's any about monetizing the images. And it's not just about monitizing the images when the public buys the books; it's also about the Collector himself monitizing the images by collecting all those images and then selling them to the publisher for use in the book in the first place.

    Hey, startrekhistory folks--and "birdofthegalaxy" if you're around: now that we see that your restoration work can be (or was) harvested off the Internet and reused by someone in some self-serving commercial venture, have your restoration efforts become less rewarding for you? Enough so that you are contemplating not doing it any longer? Is that such a laughable notion for you?
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2013
  17. stcanada29

    stcanada29 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    The photos are all credited "Courtesy of ..." which suggests they were provided free of charge; and the publisher has also stated, I think, online that the pics were freely provided to them.
    Why do you continue to try to demonize people and always assume the worst intentions of everyone involved in the project? What a horrible way to live one's life.
     
  18. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    Oh, I give the publisher and the Collector the benefit of the doubt and trust them at the demonstrably fine word. But we can never really know for sure.

    It's also possible that, although the images were provided free of charge, the Collector is getting a cut of the book sales. So that's monetizing the images while sill having provided them as a "courtesy."
     
  19. stcanada29

    stcanada29 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    The Collector has freely published most of these images on his site ... I'm a frequent visitor ... where they've been on display for several years in many cases for anyone to access. Including hundreds of scans of Lincoln film clips that are clearly unrestored - still showing multiple frames and the slots at the sides of the clips - with their current reddish/magenta tint. But those images are a tiny portion of all the prop and costume photos on the site; all free for fans to share - which have never been watermarked or claimed as proprietary.

    That's very gracious of you to trust their good word.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2013
  20. 1001001

    1001001 I Like the Beats and the Shouting Moderator

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    We're just going in circles here.

    Ultimately, the market will speak.
     
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