NBA Season - 2013-2014

Discussion in 'Sports and Fitness' started by tomalak301, Oct 26, 2013.

  1. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Parity, not parody, btw. The NFL has massive turnover in teams, but that helps ensure teams flip over from bad to good relatively quickly. The NBA's salary cap is more likely to lead to salary cap hell (although I think players are more likely to stay with one team, since the rules encourage that). Weak drafts also compound the problem, though, so I don't think going to an NFL-style salary cap redeems all problems.
     
  2. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What do you mean by, "salary cap hell"?

    The NBA CBA has always encouraged players to stay with their same teams. But unlike the NFL, there is no "franchise tag" (something the NBAPA fought in the new CBA), so there is a bit more movement among the biggest stars in the NBA than in the biggest of the NFL's stars.

    The NBA players were ready to decertify their union and start suing the owners individually rather than agree to a "hard cap" and "francise tags", so no, there is no way the NBA salary rules turn into the NFL's. The NBA players still have too much clout.
     
  3. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    The NBA is a soft cap, which means teams can go above the cap to re-sign their own players. They also have guaranteed contracts so, if you re-sign a player, you're stuck with his salary (unless another team signs that player for the same or more money). Because of this, many teams are always over the cap and are stuck signing one player for the veteran's mid-level exception (it was 4 1/2 million, I'd have to imagine it's a bit more now) or an unlimited number of players for a minimum contract. But they can't make any big free agent signings because they're so far over the cap (often with players who retired several years earlier) that they can't clear up space. And when they do clear up space, it has to be to pay their draft picks who have set salaries depending on where they were drafted. It's also more difficult to trade players because, when both teams are over the cap, the salary of the players traded have to match (why you'll see three team deals). In addition, because you can go over the cap to re-sign your players but can't do it when the player goes to a new team, there's an incentive to stay with your team. Plus, if you can only give a certain percentage as a raise in a new contract, so you can't really just sign a minimum contract and then sign a larger contract later.

    Salary Cap Hell is basically a position where a team can't do anything in free agency and the draft is never good enough to help so they have to hope to trade their expensive contracts for expiring contracts in order to have any chance to do anything.

    I do think things are changing, though. Teams like the Heat managed to sign three big names. However, they did it because the players coordinated with each other to agree not to get paid the maximum they could command. In addition, the Heat blew up the entire team and the first year had barely anyone to go with the Big Three.
     
  4. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh, okay. Since this is the case with most, if not all, serious contenders in the NBA -- at least over the cap and with low first or only 2nd round draft choices, I thought you might mean something else. As for the also rans that are in cap hell, most will get out of it eventually (some by "tanking") but wind up in the same position within a few years because they simply don't know that they're doing.

    The thing is that being in "salary cap hell" has only just now begun to affect certain teams. The Lakers have been in "cap hell" since the day we signed Shaq and it didn't stop us from winning. In the past, if a team knew what it was doing, it didn't matter all that much. It is a problem now (for the Lakers) because the last of the stars from our last championships have gotten old and we need to do a massive overhaul.

    These days, that almost has to involve the draft because the CBA has made being over the cap so much more painful than in the past and that is what happens trying to do it with free agents. Besides that, the crop of free agentes that we know will be available in 2014 is just not all that great.
     
  5. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Teams over the cap aren't inherently in salary cap hell. Teams over the cap with long-term contracts off players who are either terrible or no longer playing often are. Obviously, a team with Shaq and Kobe is going to be good even with two max salaries (actually, at least Shaq was more than the max salary). You can get a solid player who will work for the mid-level exception (particularly for a chance to win).

    But how many teams who have been terrible for years are also over the cap? The draft really isn't strong enough to get out of a funk. Teams that end up rebuilding and doing well essentially have to completely blow up their team and start over - massively shed salary by trading for expiring contracts and letting all good players on your team walk.

    The NBA is much better for dynasties compared to other leagues - the Lakers and Spurs can build up a run of championships. But it's nowhere near as good for parity and plenty of teams will be terrible for years at a time (compared to the NFL where only the chronically mismanaged will stay terrible).
     
  6. Borgminister

    Borgminister Admiral Moderator

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    Taking a pay cut helps.
     
  7. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The NBA doesn't make dynasties any easier to create than the NFL. In fact, as I already pointed out, the NFL actually does more to hold it's star players to one team than the NBA does. The reason dynasties have developed in the NBA is that some teams, namely the Lakers and most recently, the Spurs perhaps, are better run than the other franchises. We'll have to see if Miami actually has a dynasty going.

    The natures of the two games are factors too since there are more players involved in football providing more variables for winning and losing, the importance of the (NFL) quarterback position, the offense/defense dynamic. In the NBA, you can win championships with one or two superstars at any position and competent play from starter role players and back-ups and most importantly, "chemistry".

    But what we are really talking about here is the incompetent versus the competent. Most teams in the NBA are simply incompetently run. They invest in the wrong players for too long, and that is the bottom line here. If you give too long contracts to bad players you lose, regardless of "salary cap hell" or whatever. You choose the right players, invest in them long term and in the process get capped out, always end up with high draft picks (who are long shots to make it in the league), and you can't continue to sign big name free agents. But, presumably, you're winning so who cares?

    This is the way the Lakers have done it over the years, before there was a cap and since the cap. Even if in "salary cap hell" as you call it, a team can still make good trades, and this is something else at which the Lakers have excelled. But, it takes knowing who to trade, when to trade, and who to acquire.

    The concept of "salary cap hell", I think, is mostly an invention by incompetent owners seeking to justify their own incompetence -- "it's not our fault we're losing, we are caught in salary cap hell", like it wasn't their own fault.
     
  8. SmoothieX

    SmoothieX Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'll sum that up nicely for you in three words: New York Knicks.
     
  9. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Who is the regular season MVP at this point?

    I think it's a 2-man race between Paul George (23.6 ppg, 7.1 rpg, 3.2 apg, and 1.4 spg for the 9-1 Indiana Pacers) and Lebron James (26.0 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 6.7 apg, for the 8-3 Miami Heat). Durant is good, but I think he is helped by Westbrook. Chris Paul has been solid, but he's not putting up numbers like Magic or Oscar.
     
  10. Wadjda

    Wadjda Commander Red Shirt

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    Does the Knicks fanbase care about winning or they just want to see some nice 3s and lots of dunking?
     
  11. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Its New York, bro. I can't think of a fanbase that wants to win more. It is just unfortunate that they have been saddled with such poor leadership. Amare Stoudemire, indeed.
     
  12. Wadjda

    Wadjda Commander Red Shirt

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    It's team culture too. Also could you imagine Carmelo taking a paycut or taking a smaller role.
     
  13. Borgminister

    Borgminister Admiral Moderator

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    Go figure. Bulls minus Rose. Pierce and Garnett acting their ages at the Nets. Indiana is the only threat to the Heat, and so in the Eastern conference this early already, it becomes a question of minutes management and injury avoidance.

    Western Conference? Watch out, Tim Duncan has a black eye...
     
  14. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    Didn't Marc Gasol get injured last night. Also, the Warriors are struggling with Injuries with Igodala injured, Curry came back but he's not 100% and the various other injuries to Douglas and Ezili.
     
  15. Wadjda

    Wadjda Commander Red Shirt

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    Tim Duncan has a black eye? What does that mean? I did not watch the last couple of Spurs games. Did he get punched or poked in the face?
     
  16. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Derrick Rose out for the season after surgery to repair a torn meniscus in his right knee. How does a torn meniscus take a player out for the season, especially if the injury happens in November? That has to be one helluva tear. Maybe he had some of the cartilage removed in a previous injury. Usually torn cartilage is a 4-6 week, or maybe 6-8 week layoff.

    DRose's career starting to remind me of Andrew Bynum's.
     
  17. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I predicted this while he was in College. It's how awkwardly he lands on his legs.

    His career is starting to remind me of Penny Hardaway, not Andrew Bynum.
     
  18. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Has he had prior right meniscus injuries?
     
  19. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    No, but this is a pretty good breakdown of why Rose had a high statistical likelihood of re-injury:

     
  20. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No, I was just watching him light it up in the Tourney and I said "He has to stop doing that (how he's landing on his legs) or someone is going to be very disappointed in him because of injuries." To see a difference, (I'm no doctor) watch how Chris Paul lands. I knew he would tear up his knees and have chronic ankle issues.

    I called Kevin Love "a big gump." "He'll have major leg injuries, too." I thought the 2008 class was going to be in for disappointment if these were the best players.
     

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