NBA 2012-13 Discussion

Discussion in 'Sports and Fitness' started by SmoothieX, Oct 30, 2012.

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  1. SmoothieX

    SmoothieX Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I used to love watching hoops growing up, but have lately had little interest until playoff time. For whatever reason, I'm fired up for it again this year.

    How awesome would a Heat-Lakers final be?
    Do the Spurs and Celtics have anything left in the tank?
    Are the Knicks for real?
    Are the Thunder here to stay?
    When will Rose be back for the Bulls?

    Lots of good story lines this season.
     
  2. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    I too am excited for the Season to start, probably because the NHL is in such a crappy state. Of course whenever a sport starts it's season, I look forward to it, but for someone who lost interest in the NBA quite a bit (due to some factors like the Warriors sucking or some players with a me me me attitude), I'm looking forward to the season getting going.

    Don't know what to expect from the Warriors this year. I hear they have improved but we'll see. The key is for Curry to stay healthy (Which is hard for him to do) and hopefully they can get a bottom seed. Of course if I listen to everyone else, we're heading towards a Lakers/Heat finals, but I hope not.
     
  3. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    If the Harden trade is any indication, they don't want to be.

    I think the Heat and Celtics will still be the best two teams (even with the loss of Ray Allen, the Celts have moved to become younger while still competitive).

    I'm curious to see how the Sixers do once Bynum is healthy. That's a team that went from undersized athleticism where their best player came off the bench to possibly one of the biggest teams in the east (and got better at the three).

    Out west, the Lakers obviously got better, but I'm curious to see who emerges with them. Probably the Thunder, but I can only think they've gotten worse with that trade.
     
  4. Borgminister

    Borgminister Admiral Moderator

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    Spurs probably aren't going anywhere, Thunder either. Boston will make some noise if they gel, and Rivers is a great coach, so it is possible. L.A. is not automatic; I've heard grumblings about the Princeton offensive scheme stifling Nash's strengths, and you never know about Howard. Should be an interesting season though!
     
  5. Danny99

    Danny99 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So another NBA season is upon us.

    The hometown Raptors will still suck and the contenders are still limited to a handful of teams with the biggest pocketbooks.

    Snore. See you this time next year.
     
  6. Borgminister

    Borgminister Admiral Moderator

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    Hey Toronto will be fun to watch.
     
  7. SmoothieX

    SmoothieX Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Green is my favorite color, and I love the parquet floor, lived near Boston for years. Somehow never made it to the TD Wanknorth Garden.
     
  8. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    After the Lakers acquired Nash and Howard this past summer, every time I thought of the Purple and Gold I'de get this tingle...until I thought about Mike Brown. It has long been my belief that in professional team sports (especially the NBA) in order to lead effectively and win at the highst levels, the players need to either fear or respect the head coach. I don't think the Lakers fear or respect Mike Brown -- at least so far. But it is still very early, thank God. D12 starting to look like D12 -- 33 and 14 rebounds last night (in second straight loss :ack:).

    The Thunder shot themselves in the foot trading Harden. That guy killed the Lakers and the Mavs last season in the playoffs. This is what I was trying to tell our resident Thunder fan last season -- your front office has to want a championship as badly as the fans do. The Thunder F.O. appears to place profit ahead of rings. So much the better for us. :) BTW, last night Harden put up 37 and 12 assists for the Rox. The Thunder may have traded themselves 2 or 3 years into the past.

    Look for Bynum to start slow with the Sixers (he always does) but I think he will end up having a monster season.

    Actually, Warriors could be a factor this season. They have a pretty nice team on paper. Now thye even have some size with Bogut, and they are trying to actually defend.

    The Lakers may finish the season as the 3rd or 4th seed in the west (if things are flowing), but from there they should be able to reach the Finals -- IF things are flowing. That is a pretty big "if" right now.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2012
  9. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A myth perpetrated by owners who want to continue putting the squeeze on the players so they can make a bigger profit despite rampant incompetence when it come to building a winner.

    It is not about how much money an owner has, it is about knowing how to put together a winner. Give most of the owners in the league the Lakeer's or Knicks' revenue base and those owners would remain as big losers as they are now.
     
  10. Alidar Jarok

    Alidar Jarok Everything in moderation but moderation Moderator

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    Well, he is injured :p

    I'm curious to see how the team looks with him in. They looked good without him in Denver, but they still are a chameleon team with no true superstar. It'll be good to see Bynum as a force to be reckoned with.
     
  11. Borgminister

    Borgminister Admiral Moderator

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    What the heck is wrong with Howard?
     
  12. Dorian Thompson

    Dorian Thompson Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, the Thunder still wants to be. Harden wasn't going to stay. He'd have become a restricted free agent and the Thunder would have gotten nothing for him. The salary he was demanding would have put the Thunder waaaaay over the luxury tax. Presti isn't willing to do that. He made an offer that would have already put them over the limit; Harden turned it down. $55 million wasn't enough and that was as high as Presti was willing to go. They'd been negotiation for 3 months. Harden's agent kept telling him to turn it down, so he did. Presti said he'd trade him and Harden thought he was bluffing.

    The Thunder's going to be fine. I'm surprised at all this death knell talk. The two first round picks and the second round pick they acquired will put them in a good position for the future. Presti isn't willing to mortgage the future; that's always been his business model and he sticks to it. Time will tell if it was the right decision, but Harden wasn't going to score 45 points a game with the Thunder because he wouldn't have been starting. Good luck to him in Houston. He has his 80 million and a starter's role. Good luck to Houston. If it doesn't work out for them, they have zero wiggle room in their salary structure for the next couple of years. The Thunder does. We've all been saying for the past year that we would probably lose Harden. It wasn't a shock. It is what it is.
     
  13. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I know. I meant after he comes back from the injury. It might also be compounded somewhat by having to learn a new system. He might not start to really get rolling until January. But I still think he is highly motivated this season -- stuff to prove and all -- and will have a great season.

    Nothing. He is still working his way back into basketball shape after the long layoff. He wasn't able to work out normally this past summer at all. He was in foul trouble last night against the Clips. Against the Blazers a couple of nights earlier he had 33 and 14.

    Umm, and of such decisions are championships won and lost. No doubt -- the Thunder made the right economic decision, but was it the right basketball decision? Harden was a special player for the Thunder. It wasn't just his scoring, it was the way he scored -- getting to the cup against double teams and shot blocking centers. And not only would he get the basket, he'd also get the demoralizing "and 1". Harden was also a "starter" for this team. He was a player who helped define who the young Thunder were. Trading a player like this can sometimes do more damage than what is seen in the stat columns. Think; the Celts trade of Perkins to the Thunder. Ironic, huh.

    Oh yes, absolutely. They still have a great young core plus a year of experience deep in the playoffs -- but "being fine" isn't the goal, is it? The question is, can they win a championship as currently constructed and without Harden.
    Again, if the goal is giving yourself "wiggle room" for the future and not "mortgaging the future" then the Thunder made the right move, but the question is, when it comes to winning a championship this -- did this move help them.
     
  14. 1001001

    1001001 I Like the Beats and the Shouting Moderator

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  15. Borgminister

    Borgminister Admiral Moderator

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    Enter Phil Jackson.
     
  16. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Mike Brown should never have been hired. The Lakers FO (particularly Jim Buss) will have to take the hit over this one. This is Jim's second inappropriate coaching choice, Rudy Tomjanovich being his first. We could have had Rick Adelman 2 seasons ago, or Brian Shaw, but Jimmy gets blown away by Mike's F'n DvD interview presentation. :rolleyes:

    I hope it's Phil. Second choice would be Jerry Sloan. Push comes to shove, I could live with the overrated Nate McMillan -- but HELL NO to D'Antoni. His teams never play defense and always choke in the playoffs.
     
  17. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    Jackson might not be an ideal fit; most of the core from when he last coached the team is gone, so he'd have to effectively re-install the triangle offense. He and Jim Buss don't get along at all, either. If he did get the job, I guarantee you it would just be as a stopgap for the remainder of the season, while a full coaching search went on. He's 67 and pretty clearly doesn't want to coach until his hip falls off. (Even prior to his final season, he was wanting to only coach home games and let Shaw lead the team on the road.)

    Jerry Sloan is a hell of a coach and I'd love to see him get a ring, but he and Dwight Howard would be a match made in Hell. And given that that Sloan had a breakdown over the strain of having Utah management back him 99.9 percent in his fight with Deron Williams instead of 100 percent, I'm not sure the Los Angeles media market and the Buss family is a great fit for him.

    Comedy option: Stan Van Gundy.
     
  18. SmoothieX

    SmoothieX Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The time to get rid of him would have been in the offseason where, as you noted, they would have had more options and the new HC would have had a chance to implement his system in training camp. 5 games really isn't a fair shakedown though.

    I don't know all the hot assistants right now, but assuming they don't poach one from another team (Shaw is now in Indy) it doesn't leave a ton of options.

    Jackson is a short-term solution. They don't play defense now just imagine if D'antoni got the gig. People like Jerry Sloan, Mike Dunleavy, or Don Nelson are aging retreads that are also not long term fixes. I don't think a relatively young, inexperienced coach like Nate McMillan would command the respects of a bunch of stars.

    Stan Van Gundy would be hilarious, I can just see Howard's head exploding upon hearing the news. Jeff Van Gundy isn't the worst option but I could see him ruffling feathers too.

    They need a Joe Torre type of guy who can manage the egos of an all star team on paper put together with aging, disparate parts. I could see Coach K working, since he's got Kobe's and Howard's respect from the Olympic teams, but he'll never leave Duke. Who that leaves, I don't know.

    D'antoni might be the best option. Nash thrived in his system and he was an assistant on the last couple of Olympic teams.
     
  19. gblews

    gblews Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't think the number of guys who have played for Phil before is really a factor. Most new (for a particular team) coaches don't have any players who have played for them before. But there are still Kobe, Ebanks, Pau, MWP, all either starters or rotational guys. As for the Triangle, Phil might decide to install it (if he decides to install it) in small enough increments that it won't overwhelm the team. IMO, the Tri is not as complicated as the Princeton.
    The stuff about Phil and Jim Buss's relationship all stems from Phil's comment about their not having a relationship rather being about confrontations and wars of words. Jim and Kobe had no relationship up until last season when they finally sat down together and talked. After that, it was fine.

    Well of course it will only be a "stop gap". The Lakers have a 2 year window; that is the reason Mike was let go, and the reason Phil is being considered -- because he is the guy best equipped to win now. If it is Phil, it will likely be a 2 year deal with maybe a third as Phil's option.

    Phil has had two hip replacements. His girlfriend, Jeanie tweeted all summer long that he is healthy and ready to coach. Phil, more than anyone, knows what that means. He has had more than a year way from coaching so I suspect his batteries have been recharged and he is ready to go.
     
  20. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    The triangle is pretty complicated and requires rigorous practice. Remember, Kobe Bryant came thisclose to demanding a trade because he fucking hated the triangle. Steve Nash would also be wasted in the triangle, and Howard might have a hard time picking it up, too: It was really an anomaly that they made it to the Finals without Karl Malone ever learning it.

    Sure, it's definitely less complicated than the Princeton, but that's like saying overhauling an engine is less complicated than putting a man on the moon -- there's still a lot of stuff going on, and the Lakers don't have the advantage of a training camp for a learning period: They'll have to adapt in the middle of a season (assuming Jackson gets the job).

    It's also worth noting that Tex Winter isn't available to help in training, either. :(

    Buss pretty clearly resented the amount of input that Jackson had in Kupchak's personnel decisions, for what it's worth, and sources have been reporting that one of the conditions for him getting the job is that he'll have to accept a significantly reduced role over personnel. Word is that Jackson has said that he wants even more input over personnel / organizational moves, and he wants a limited travel schedule (probably only sticking to West Coast swings, I would guess), so there are some philosophical issues to be worked out, there. The Lakers probably don't want to hire Phil Jackson and then wind up with Kurt Rambis running the team 50 percent of the time, which is why they're interviewing Mike Dunleavy tomorrow.

    I'm not saying Jackson's a poor fit (he's probably the best fit); having grown up in Chicago and seen what he did with the Bulls, I think he's the greatest of all time. I'm just saying he'd be coming in and dealing with a very different roster than he last worked with. That roster was built for Mike Brown's systems, not Phil Jackson's, so there will be some pains -- and they won't have a lot of time to get the ship righted, no matter whom they hire.

    Edit: Jackson has told the team that he's pretty insistent on both the travel restrictions and the personnel thing, so both sides have agreed to table discussions for a couple of days; Lakers did a phone interview with D'Antoni today and are interviewing Mike Dunleavy tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
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