Name your imponderables for Star Trek

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Robbiesan, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. Hazel

    Hazel Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Location:
    UK
    All of this exactly (I was going to post an explanation myself, but I'm way too fuzzy from a cold to be articulate.)

    Also, 'political correctness' is a stupid argument. Without people forcing issues of representation and equal rights, things would never change.
     
  2. urbandefault

    urbandefault Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Location:
    Sickbay, dammit
    "Persons of pallor"? That's a new one. :lol:
     
  3. Shawnster

    Shawnster Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Location:
    Clinton, OH
    And neither of those reached the bridge, which I did specify.
     
  4. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Political correctness was never about giving people equal rights, it's about censorship of language that is equal rights issues adjacent. In my experience, exposure to political correctness has led people to become more racist rather than less racist, and made them more resistant to actual social changes.

    You're absolutely right that there are great inequities in the availability of roles today, and I agree that's a good reason not to give minority roles to white actors. (Besides the fact that the white guy who plays an Asian in Broken Blossoms by squinting looks really stupid doing so). But outside of a historical context where those cultural wounds are still so fresh, wouldn't you want to cast the actor who would carry the role best regardless of whether their demographic background is identical to that of the character?

    This is an issue because of the social and income inequities of today. If a hundred years from now, the average black man has the same income and the same opportunities as the average white man, I doubt anybody will care about the race of individual casting decisions anymore.
     
  5. JD5000

    JD5000 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Location:
    Jackson, WY
    Very well said, up until the last sentence.
     
  6. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    Agreed with Hazel that this is just a foolish term. It basically attempts to lump together justified censure of racism with unjustified overreach. (Hence my reference to "idiotic babbling" which JD5000 didn't care for, which is fair and I withdraw that -- it's just that this is a sufficiently irritating and aggressively clueless trope that my patience with it is really really thin.)

    This I do not buy at all. More racist than when lynching was common practice and there were laws on the books against miscegenation? This is a standard excuse that bigots will advance for the persistence of their bigotry, which they know is shameful and is thus easier to blame on outside influences -- but it's a mistake to believe it. The truth is the reverse: what really moves the needle away from racism in practice is confronting and shaming it, not tiptoeing around it for fear of "political correctness."

    The nice thing about casting actors from minorities for minority-specific roles is that they also usually happen to be best qualified to sell the role, and for non-specific roles it shouldn't matter and will be nice when it actually doesn't.
     
  7. Sam_I_Am

    Sam_I_Am Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Location:
    New Taipei, Taiwan
    Did Neelix, Kes, Spock, Kira, Odo etc learn English (or Standard) or was their speech constantly being translated? What about when they didn't wear a combadge?
     
  8. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    Go ahead, caller. I'm listening...
    Being politically correct within one's self and speech is just polite.

    Enforcing your own standards for political correctness on others that aren't your responsibility (you can still choose your friends and guide your children) is unreasonable.

    Now, another imponderable, for me: How do you allow a man who has had his mind copied into the Borg Collective just resume command of the Federation flagship?
     
  9. Hazel

    Hazel Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Location:
    UK
    Well, it's not very polite to use language which is demeaning, offensive or prejudiced to others when there are plenty of other good words either. (I know you're not saying that, I'm just pointing out politeness goes both way)

    Blaming 'political correctness' is just a way to build a strawman argument against getting rid of discriminatory language and behaviour. Despite what anti-'PC' folk say, no-one is actually going up to people who say 'manhole' instead of 'personhole'* and poppping them in the mouth. They're just saying slurs against sex, race and other factors are harmful.

    *I've seen anti-PC people say that this kind of word-policing goes on. Never seen it myself, but even if one person is being ridiculous abut a word, why brand other all the people in a movement?
     
  10. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    Go ahead, caller. I'm listening...
    I try to be polite and reasonably PC for my own part, but I have to say, I'd be pretty tempted to kick someone who said 'personhole' right in their personhole. :lol:
     
  11. Hazel

    Hazel Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2013
    Location:
    UK
    I still snigger everytime someone says they're going down a manhole :D
     
  12. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    I sometimes call huntsman spiders huntspeople, just to see what happens.
     
  13. JD5000

    JD5000 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2013
    Location:
    Jackson, WY
    Weren't UT's implants at this point? I'm thinking of Quark, Rom and Nog smacking their ears in "Little Green Men".
     
  14. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Down in the tube station at midnight
    You assign the ship to the butt end of space and hope you won't need it.
     
  15. urbandefault

    urbandefault Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Location:
    Sickbay, dammit
    Ok, there's a riff on an old Steve Martin joke in there, but you'll have to find it for yourself. I ain't touching it. :lol:
     
  16. USS Triumphant

    USS Triumphant Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    Go ahead, caller. I'm listening...
    That explains First Contact well enough, but not everything between "Family" and the end of Generations.
     
  17. mtblillie

    mtblillie Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    In today's Navy and/or NASA, he would either be tucked away in an office somewhere or retired.

    My biggest pet peave is the total lack of realism for the sake of the episode. I love trek, but it is no where near believable in the true sense.
     
  18. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    I bet they have PTSD hyposprays to fix you. They seem to have gotten rid of most mental health conditions and the few that show up are a real head scratcher for the enlightened ones (Barclay, Suder..)

    Instant fix burns, turned into another species and back again in a day.. why not wire brains to function at the highest levels of copacetic and keep hitting redo every time something shitty happens?
     
  19. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Down in the tube station at midnight
    Troi and Crusher said he was fine and signed a permission slip.
     
  20. urbandefault

    urbandefault Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2013
    Location:
    Sickbay, dammit
    Not believable in the "true sense"? :guffaw:

    You know it's fiction and fantasy, right?

    My pet peave (sic) is people who complain about how stuff isn't perfect, and misspell words in the process. ;)