My thoughts on and gripes with Star Trek Into Darkness

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Ometiklan, Jun 6, 2013.

  1. newtontomato539

    newtontomato539 Commander Red Shirt

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    Bad Robot Trek is still being made. Live action Prime Trek is dead.

    People enjoy Bad Robot and Prime Trek.

    Should Bad Robot Trek be stopped just because it's not Prime Trek?
     
  2. Kanenas

    Kanenas Commodore Commodore

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    ALL your points on spot on. The character development was pathetic at best. The meritocracy of the federation is gone and has been replaced by childish cronyism and whining.

    The daring of kirk is condemned and the effetness of go along to get along is rewarded.

    Just because this poorly written movie bears the name of star trek does not give it a free pass to criticism.
     
  3. Kanenas

    Kanenas Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, yes it should be stopped.
     
  4. throwback

    throwback Captain Captain

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    Here is an article on the film. It ties into the theme of this thread. The writer has taken on the persona of the Hulk, which explains the article being in caps. The writer believes that action pieces have become burdened with over-convoluted plots wherein characters do their actions because the story demands it as opposed to an organic need. The writer believes that clarity is being lost in these stories.

    http://badassdigest.com/2013/06/12/film-crit-hulk-smash-the-age-of-the-convoluted-blockbuster/

    (This is not a JJ Abrams bashing article. The writer treats Abrams as the representative of a trend in storytelling that is occurring now in Hollywood.)

    For me, after reading this article, I think one of the aspects I miss most from the older Star Trek films, and older blockbusters generally, was their clarity. Sure, there were plot holes - things that weren't explained. However, I never did leave the theater attempting to put the pieces of what I had seen together and feeling that I was drowning in the process. I bought the novel hoping for answers, and the novel left me feeling unsatisfied.

    The article ends,

    The Raid is an Indonesian martial arts action film. ([http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Raid:_Redemption)
     
  5. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    RLM has a history of totally misunderstanding plots.
     
  6. Khaaaaan

    Khaaaaan Ensign Newbie

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    Finally saw this today at the cinema today (in 2D).

    A few points (although not much which hasn't been covered already).

    1) It looks brilliant. Genuinely lovely looking sets, depth detail - the mix of CGI/proper props is spot on. I really like the effort made for the Enterprise's interior - especially the engine room/warp cores.

    2) Some great acting all round. (Even Pegg has stepped it up as Scotty).

    3) Why so much lens flare? Is it supposed to make the conversations more exciting? I didn't think it as overused as the first film but I'm not quite sure what it adds to the film.

    4) Super fast paced film. As has been mentioned in previous posts, there are a number of plot holes however the pace of the film is such that you don't really think about them (or rather ignore them) in view of the relentless action.

    5) "What are you injecting that Tribble with...?" I think it was fairly obvious what was going to happen after this.

    6) Why bother recreating the whole reactor core/WoK situation when 1) We all know Kirk isn't allowed to die 2) We have already predicted how he's going to be brought back to life 3) The relationship hasn't developed enough to portray/sustain the emotionality of the situation. 4) Is this simply a nod to the Trekkies? I like nods/in jokes, but I don't just want a rehash for the sake of it.

    My real bother was that the blood was very much an ill thought out (or at least very shortsighted) 'deus ex machina'. So now, death/disease will not be an issue with Khan's blood? That'll revolutionise the future NHS.

    7) I wasn't a massive fan of the old Spock scene, seemed a bit of a cop out.

    8) Overall, I thought it a good fun film. Looks great, some brilliant action and I think you can forgive its (fairly minor in the scheme of things) failings.
     
  7. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Captain Captain

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    I felt this was a vast improvement over Star Trek 2013 because it nicely dovetailed into Star Trek's "high ideals." The first film had better characterization and development but this one did a pretty good amount of social satire. It's not DEEP social satire and it's arguably a decade too late since Enterprise was ALL ABOUT the War on Terror but it did it better than ENT so I can't complain too much.

    Ironically, I think a fairly solid film is here that's worthy of the best Star Trek has to offer, it's just drowned by the Wrath of Khan rip-off. Just keep with John Harrison being a Section 31 agent off the reservation trying to prevent a war with the Klingon empire through terrorism and you have a GASP actual moral dilemma.

    I wonder why they went with this inferior version.
     
  8. newtontomato539

    newtontomato539 Commander Red Shirt

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    :vulcan: If Bad Robot Trek is dead, then there will be no more Star Trek.

    Just because something is not explained, does not make it a Plot Hole. tm

    Lastly, Simon Pegg was great as Scotty in the previous film. :techman:
     
  9. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I've heard this a couple of times and really don't get it. When you click with someone you care about them, whether you've known them one year or fifteen.
     
  10. Khaaaaan

    Khaaaaan Ensign Newbie

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    It is to do with the understanding/appreciation the audience have for the relationship.

    In WoK, Kirk and Spock had previously been through a lot. We know and appreciate their strong friendship. As such, we can understand the devastation shown by Kirk for Spock's sacrifice.

    In the new film, Kirk and Spock seem to be arguing all the time. I'd hardly call them 'friends' as they just about tolerate each other. After only two films of getting to know them, to mimic the famous warp core scene is forced and tbh lazy writing imo.

    Is Hollywood so devoid of original stories?
     
  11. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    Originality is overrated when it comes to entertainment. It can result in something great but it is hardly a guarantee of such.

    As for the scene vs length of friendship issue, I didn't read Spock's anguish as forced. He's mourning the loss of what might have been, having had just enough of a taste of its potential. Add to that all the other things he's had to cope with in the two films (and the revealing statement he makes in the civilian ship) and it becomes clear that this Spock is facing emotional trauma on a scale unmatched by Nimoy's Spock--and at an earlier, less experienced and mature point in his life. His inability to reign in the emotions--more powerful than human versions--is thus quite understandable.
     
  12. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    tl;dr

    You're gonna have to realize, sooner or later, that despite our impressions 40 years after the fact, the original Star Trek was neither especially deep nor highly intellectual. The last two Star Trek movies capture the TOS feel more faithfully than you realize: fancy special effects, cool space battles, scary-looking aliens and crazy bad guys with incomprehensible motives who must be stopped at all cost. Admiral Marcus, for example, would look more familiar to you if he'd been named "Admiral Garth" or "Admiral Tracey," for example.

    TOS, in its day, was simplistic and shallow in an age where science fiction had a tendency to BE simplistic and shallow. Since that hasn't changed much in the movie industry, guess what? Star Trek Into Darkness is ALSO simplistic and shallow. But you must remember that it wasn't the scientific depth and worldbuilding that drew the original fans to Star Trek. It was Kirk, Spock and McCoy.

    Maybe they'll do something different when they reboot Voyager or TNG, but TOS was always known for strong characters, not strong storylines.
     
  13. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You're right. That sounds more like marriage.:vulcan:

    Star Trek probably is.

    Then again, the core scene works well in the context of the movie itself. They did, after all, spend pretty much the entire movie developing Kirk and Spock's relationship, not to mention expanding on Spock and Uhura. Towards the end, they argue more like brothers than like friends.

    Because moral dilemmas are vague and abstract. Khan, as a human being specifically created for war and conquest, is the personification of that moral dilemma. Thus defeating Khan and also Marcus effectively solves the moral dilemma (though not the strategic one involving the Klingons) and leaves us with a relatively satisfying conclusion.

    The moral dilemma is whether or not it is acceptable to indiscriminately deploy weapons to destroy your enemies without due process, without considering collateral damage, without considering the broader consequences of what you're about to do. In that sense, Khan is effectively a walking box of unintended consequences.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2013
  14. newtontomato539

    newtontomato539 Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree.

    Constantly whining that it's not Prime Trek but later admitting that if it was Prime Trek, it would be accepted is getting old. Fast.
     
  15. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Warning for spamming. Comments to PM.
     
  16. mos6507

    mos6507 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    For all time? I doubt it.
     
  17. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Just for a decade or so somebody else comes along and reboots it again, at which point the die hard loyal fanboys will be screaming even louder.
     
  18. mos6507

    mos6507 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    First off, citing Garth is cherry-picking. Whom Gods Destroy is a so-so 3rd season episode at a time when things were teetering on camp.

    Also, anyone who looks back on the history of SF cites TOS as intelligent, certainly more intelligent than Irwin Allen's stuff or what came before like Rocky Jones Space Ranger. The writers that were brought in to work on it saw it as an attempt to finally do justice to science fiction, which had been seen as primarily "kiddie fare". That it doesn't measure up to the gravitas of, let's say, the BSG reboot, takes nothing away from what TOS successfully accomplished. And yes, it did that at the same time it allowed Kirk to bed aliens and get into fisticuffs.

    It's the same way the Beatles could be seen as mindless bubblegum pop by looking at part of their catalog, or psychadelic trailblazers with another. Trek was not just one thing across those 79 episodes. It was a very broad concept and it adopted a wide range of styles. Too often in threads like this there is an attempt to kind of box TOS into this almost Belushi-SNL-skit satirical caricature, and it really just feels like a cheap attempt to bash TOS to make JJ Abrams look better in comparison.
     
  19. doubleohfive

    doubleohfive Fleet Admiral

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    My eyes are bleeding at the innate stupidity of this thread.
     
  20. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Admiral

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    Jesus Neck Pinching Christ. 6675 words in your first post. Learn to self-edit.

    Off topic, you're in Silver Spring too? Small world.