My Official "The Ending Sucked" Thread

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by The Master of Tarquin Hill, Mar 21, 2009.

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  1. AlanC9

    AlanC9 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But we do know that the sometimes work for something that is referred to as "God," and that they're immortal and non-physical. I don't have any word for them that works better than "angel."
     
  2. Klaitu

    Klaitu Commodore Commodore

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    Sure, it seems reasonable to call them angels, but their actual nature is completely different. Where's the wings and halos and whatnot? Why do they look like actual mortal beings, even after those mortal beings are dead?

    Anyways, all the Count Iblis arguments aside, the idea of "angelic-like beings" looking out for the Battlestar crew is not unheard of.
     
  3. firehawk12

    firehawk12 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, to be fair, the only reason they were called Angels was because Moore had to rely on a Western religion and Judeo-Christian mythology is the thing that everyone knows. He could have just as easily called them Valkyries or Furies or whatever.
     
  4. Bishbot

    Bishbot Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    She was also mitochondial Eve, the mother of modern humanity - rather more important than destroying the evil Cylons in the great scheme of things.
     
  5. billcosby

    billcosby Commodore Commodore

    I'd have called them "chazzwazzers". [/Aussie accent] :techman:
     
  6. firehawk12

    firehawk12 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What does that mean though? That every descendant of hers had daughters? That we all have cylon DNA and that Earth 2 will end up like Earth 1? Honestly, if Hera wasn't there and you remove "God" out of the equation, would anything have changed? If it was Six or even some random woman like that nurse who was the mitochondrial Eve, would that have changed anything?

    It's why I think the final ending was just a cop out way to make everything seem more important than it actually was. They might as well have had a "present" Kara Thrace walking down the streets of Manhattan to add more "mystery" to God's plan. Or maybe cut to a photo of bin Laden with glowy cylon eyes. :p
     
  7. Lookingglassman

    Lookingglassman Admiral Admiral

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    Was the first earth really earth?
     
  8. Klaitu

    Klaitu Commodore Commodore

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    I think that what they were implying here was that Mitochondria came from the Cylons.

    Which of course is ridiculous in real life since other animals have mitochondia, but makes for a great story.
     
  9. Bishbot

    Bishbot Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No, I think you're reading too much rationality into it. It was Hera's destiny because it was Hera's destiny. It wasn't a straight line of cause and effect: "humans need Cylons because technobabble" - it was simply the case that that little girl had to be saved because she would go on to be the mother of humanity, not for any scientific reason. She had a role to play in the same way that Starbuck did, a role not based in science, but in destiny.
     
  10. Frontman

    Frontman Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I think the ending sucked. Sure it was excellent episode but as for the end of series, I just can't believe people liked it. That just proves that what ever RDM did for ending people would of liked it.
    Lee: "Hey Kara... Goodbye Kara."
     
  11. hyzmarca

    hyzmarca Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The birg problem with sending the Centurions away is that it's a racist cop-out. It's Apartheid, pure and simple. "We can't live with you so we'll just send you away", that's what they're saying. They're flesh separatists.

    It would have been bolder, stronger, more moral, and frankly more honest for them to sit down and talk to the Centurions like actual people and create a society where both flesh and metal can live together in peace and harmony.

    As the Bard wrote, "... we band of brothers; For he to-day that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition".

    They shed their blood together, they were brothers in the truest sense, and yet the fleshlings continued to treat the Centurions like red-headed stepchildren. The best they could do was leave them to slowly die alone in the middle of nowhere without support as they eventually run out of fuel, or are killed by loyalist Cylons from one of the baseships that wasn't present at the battle at the Colony. Yeah, they forgot about that, too.

    It would have been less hypocritical of them to let the metal cylons join them, to live as equals, to intermarry in spite of their inability to reproduce with fleshlings, because a romance between a fleshling and a Centurion certainly isn't impossible.


    Of course, the part of the ending in New York is also kind of asinine. And the fact that the big questions aren't answered is more than anoying. And they so ripped off the Twilight zone with Adam & Eve astronauts plot.
     
  12. spocksbrain

    spocksbrain Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Just to repeat the general consensus ... yep, it was a cop out. All week, I wondered how many of the mysteries we would get answers to. I didn't expect the answer to be "none". Angels and leaps of faith, no explanations to be found. As far as Hera and her special destiny ... that's just lazy writing.

    It's like the Sopranos ending: anything you do will dissatisfy at least half of the viewers, so you might as well just not do anything at all.
     
  13. Klaitu

    Klaitu Commodore Commodore

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    So you're saying that science and destiny are two seperate things, even though science is the study of all phenomena?

    The circular reasoning of "It's her destiny because it's her destiny" doesn't work for me for two reasons:

    1. They provide a scientific explaination for Hera's destiny, despite your claim that they don't. The ancient discovery could just as easily have been Adama's lighter, or the emblem of the colonies, or a trashed raptor. The explaination given here is clearly science, and clearly directly about Hera.

    2. When the whole "Hera is essential to the survival of everyone" thing was invented, RDM and company had no idea what they were going to end up doing with her. In essence, the character had no destiny.

    3. If Hera is destined to be the mitochondrial Eve, then nothing could have prevented it from happening, and thus there is absolutely no peril for the crew in attempting to rescue her. It retriactively renders the story meaningless in the say way as "It was all a dream"

    4. In order for Hera's arc to have any meaning to it, there has to be a reason for Hera's story to exist. In your context, if Hera was killed during the rescue, then someone else would be mitochondrial eve, and that's the only historical change that would have happened... in other words, if she has a destiny that can't be altered, it at least has to be something specific as to why it is Hera with this destiny and not someone else.
     
  14. firehawk12

    firehawk12 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But that's the thing, if you even think about what it means to be the mitochondrial Eve, all that it means is that there's a pure "matra-lineal" line that traces back to her. Fine and dandy, but it's not like there weren't other women around back then - in BSG land or in real life. They were just "unlucky" to have sons or have daughters/granddaughters/great-granddaughters/etc who had sons.
     
  15. Carlito

    Carlito Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Firehawk12, you have NEVER EVER liked BSG right form the very very start, even back when pretty much everyone agreed it was great so I've got NO FUCKING CLUE why you'd keep watching it all these years when you've obviously been deriving NO enjoyment from it. You would NEVER have been satisfied with the finale because it's NEVER been the show for you and you should have stopped watching it years ago instead of wasting precious hours of your short mortal life watching a show you don't like and whining on the internet about how it's not the way you would have made it (when it never has been right from the start as you well know.) STOP wasting your life thinking about it, go out, get some sun, or if you must watch a tv show you actually enjoy (there must be one, surely).
     
  16. Klaitu

    Klaitu Commodore Commodore

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    Wow, such rage!

    Seriously though.. you pick that particular post to reply to with all that hate? That post is completely correct in that being "Mitochondrial Eve" doesn't mean much other than Hera got lucky.

    Trying to understand Hera's destiny in that context is.. difficult.
     
  17. Chess Piece Face

    Chess Piece Face Commodore Commodore

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    The more I think about this finale, the less I like it. I don't watch Science Fiction to get the same dopey nothing answer I get in real life (ie, God did it). I watch Science Fiction to get away from that.
     
  18. Bishbot

    Bishbot Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah but my point is: who's to say what is luck and what isn't? Surely destiny can look like luck from a scientific standpoint.
     
  19. Bishbot

    Bishbot Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    1. Actually I'm not arguing that Hera's place as the mother of the human race isn't based in science, I'm arguing that the reason it has to be her and not anyone else isn't.

    2. Irrelevent - the story is what we're presented with onscreen, not what the writers spitballed to each other behind closed doors.

    3. Perhaps if our characters hadn't acted in the ways they did, maybe Hera would not have got where she had to get and humanity would have ended. Destiny is probably the wrong word because it implies pre-ordination, but it was the plan. There's nothing to suggest that if certain things had gone differently the "divine" plan would still have worked out.

    4. I apologise again for using the word "destiny", it wasn't quite what I meant.

    Sorry for the double post.
     
  20. Dar70

    Dar70 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think the ending would have worked better if they at the very least kept earth 2("our earth") a few thousand years in the future or a couple hundred years in the past. It would have worked better because I find it hard to believe that Caprica looks exactly like earth 2 does 150,000 years later. Right down to ties and gift bags.:lol: Or they could have landed landed on an earth in the 1800's or early 1900's. Which would have worked as well. This way the colonials would have used their influence to invent many of the things we see on Caprica. Would have been more believeable ot me anyways.

    The whole cradle of civilization thing just seemd way more forced. This was an early theory by many of us and I didnt like it than anymore than now.:(
     
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