My Grievances of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Mycroft Maxwell, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Were they traveling at the same speed each way?
     
  2. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    I honestly don't care that much, it would just rock my world to see any version of Trek simply pick one and stick to it. As I said I don't particularly care if it's "realistic" -- "warp" travel probably never will be -- I just think that story opportunities are lost when people refuse to make an internally-consistent call on this kind of thing.
     
  3. Jerikka Dawn

    Jerikka Dawn Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    If the intention is to write a consistent narrative, there is absolutely only one rule that needs to be followed regardless of the story -- that you don't contradict what previously happened in the narrative. How did STID or ST'09 do this with regard to travel time/speed?
     
  4. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Speed has always been nothing more than a plot device. They're there instantly when they need to be, it takes too long when the plot requires it. The NuTrek movies are just ore blatant about it, that's all.
     
  5. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Yes, but if you want to go a bit beyond that and have a narrative with a consistent setting that can enable certain kinds of stories, merely avoiding setting up any rules for your setting will not do. That simply provides you with a mushy setting, not internal consistency.

    I have in fact gone over all of this in detail in the prior several pages of discussion, down to specifying the types of stories I think are undermined by the "speed of drama" conceit. What I'm talking about obviously is slightly more advanced storytelling than just "don't trip over your own narrative feet." (Only slightly, though.)
     
  6. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Haven't been in this thread for weeks, but this stuff is really nice to read. The whole business of setting rules and sticking with them is something that seems to have disappeared this century, with the exception of GRAVITY, where they made a major point to pick their situation and let it play out (sort of like a dynamic simulation in CG.)

    RED OCTOBER even plays honest with the time delay required to get them to where the climax has to play out, spelling out the elapsed time on screen. As to how the other Russian boat found them, well, I don't even remember how Clancy justified that in the novel. On first viewing, I really disliked the film, but it has definitely grown on me, even if Connery's Ramius is a little off in his timing for my taste (something that only happens on the rarest of occasions, as Connery can do little wrong in most films.)

    ID's superbeaming and megatranswarps make a hash of conventional cinematic timeframes, but I think you can say the same about 09. Both the KELVIN battle and the final battle with E and the big Romulan thing play for me like montages in how they are edited and sound mixed, where time is very elastic, rather than in real-time, and it is just one more big disconnect in each instance for me in a film that was full of WTFs to go with these disconnects.
     
  7. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    ST09, when they're planning the trip to Titan.
     
  8. Mycroft Maxwell

    Mycroft Maxwell Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Ummm...anyone realize at that uber uber uber fast warp, that if the Vengeance didn't blast it out of warp, the Enterprise would have passed Earth up...by lightyears...
     
  9. ChowdaHead

    ChowdaHead Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    ladies and gentlemen, BigJake. :barf:
     
  10. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Awww, does somebody need a hug?


    I'm very excited to see GRAVITY for this very reason!

    (And yeah, I totally get the caveats about Hunt, which is fun and awesome and gets points for realistically tackling its premise but wasn't necessarily flawless. Actually the film about those events that I really prefer is K-19: The Widowmaker, which really points up the ramshackle nature of the Soviet navy -- not to mention the awful management of its Politburo masters -- and brings home the ungodly courage it took to go to sea on a Soviet nuclear submarine. The scene where they discover their "radiation suits" are actually anti-chemical hazmat suits is heartbreaking.)

    [EDIT:
    Honestly, you know what I realized today that this reminds me of? And I really, honestly don't mean this as flamebait, because I'm a SW as much as I'm as Trek fan (albeit for different reasons)? It really does remind me of Star Wars.

    In fact, the more I reflect on the Abrams films, the more striking it is. The elastic approach to time, the pulpy swashbuckling feel (complete with Sulu's swordfight on the drilling platform in ST09), the Lucas-style themes of Destiny and instant friendship, the feeling that the galaxy is ruled by feudal-style organizations (which is what Abrams Starfleet feels like, an organization of lords bestowing privileges despite the dressing of ranks), the culminating medals-and-honours scenes and malleability of ranks (in which context "Captain Kirk" sounds no more implausible than "General Solo"), the way warp is treated (thanks to those who pointed out the smattering of "warp factor" usages, but it still feels to me overall like "let's make the jump to lightspeed"), the random alien buddy assigned to Scotty in both films... it all feels familiar.]
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  11. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Please don't do that. It's quite possible to address the content of a post without taking a crack at the person who made it. If all that's there is the personal swipe, then that's a post which didn't need to be made in the first place.

    And if the post didn't need to be made, then neither did it warrant a response. Don't do that, please.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  12. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    On the other hand, Anakin never made Jedi Master, so there's that.

    STID is noticeably worse in this respect IMO.
     
  13. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    ANY objection? Nope. I've had my criticisms of nuTrek. It's just that my overall experience with the movies happens to be positive. And when I have had negative things to say about an incarnation of Trek, I've 1.) kept to the point, 2.) not held an expectation that because I believe it that others must believe it and that is bad likewise or 3.) those people holding contrary views are somehow lesser lifeforms.

    Just sayin'...

    Nope. Not even close. Dumber than a box of rocks, actually. Just lived enough life to know when to give a fuck and when not to.

    And will you pat me on the head and give me a cookie if I do?

    TBH, I don't know that some Trekfans can discern the difference. Or that, in reality, it doesn't make a lick of difference.

    Dodging? Nope. Not at all. Pointing out with some humor what IMHO may be the parsing of very tiny nits being picked? Probably.
     
  14. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Good. Then we should get along just fine. (I mean, assuming you've also "lived enough life" not to read shrill, defensive fantasy-narratives into the fact of someone not particularly liking a thing you like.)

    Big fan of your electric tuba work on the "Billy and the Boingers" EP, by the way.
     
  15. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    There's plenty of room here for anyone to express an opinion about the movies, whether that opinion be favorable, unfavorable, or anywhere in between. Needling those with whom you might not agree by using verbiage such as the above is completely unnecessary and not especially friendly. Be friendly instead, and avoid taking the personal line.
     
  16. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    I am making every effort to answer friendliness with friendliness and generally to ignore OTT hostility and attempts to invent supposed attitudes on my behalf. My apologies for the above lapse(s) in this policy, I'll avoid responding to any such provocations again.
     
  17. Balrog

    Balrog Commodore Commodore

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    You know, Big, they've got a forum right up your alley on this site called The Neutral Zone. I think you'd find it's much more... liberating... than what you find here in the Trek XI+ thread. And we're having a whole big 'ole discussion about STiD and Abrams Trek there.

    You should check it out!
     
  18. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Yeppers. Neat zero rules, and you can respond nearly anyway you want to a post.

    Otherwise, the only advice I can give: If you think it's a personal dig, walk on by and respond to the topic of the post.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  19. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    By no means did I mean to imply I'm not enjoying this forum, mind you. The bulk of my experience here has been positive and educational, and I certainly have no problem with fairly-applied rules, so I'm definitely not going anywhere. (Balrog, the Neutral Zone you describe is on this site? Do you mind linking to it? I can't seem to see it in the forum listing.)
     
  20. Balrog

    Balrog Commodore Commodore

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Sure, buddy!

    Go to your "User CP" at the top of the page and click on it. Go down the list there on the left hand side to "Group Memberships". Click on that, then click to join "The Neutral Zone" on that page.

    And you're in!