My Grievances of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Mycroft Maxwell, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    And what do you suppose might have made it seem like a relatively "adult" sci-fi drama?
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    alt.nerd.obsessive.pic
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Umm... the themes of the show. Not slavish adherence to military minutiae that no one cares about. People love to get lost in drama, not minutiae.
     
  3. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Which was the exploration of space by a broadly believable semi-military organization, with a Captain modelled after Horatio Hornblower.

    Right again! Believability was not about slavish adherence to minutiae. Not that we've been discussing any such thing. If someone comes along to tell you that the Enterprise didn't have enough noncoms or technically correct Naval salutes, you should feel free to tell them they're wrong.
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    alt.nerd.obsessive.pic
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    In universe, there is nothing to me that is out of place in the promotion of Jim Kirk to Captain. I've seen a Starfleet that has done many, many things that kill any attempt to try and compare it to a modern military.

    It's not the way I would've handled it had I been writing, but I'm not the one writing the Trek films and it didn't hamper my enjoyment of the Abrams films.
     
  5. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    While it sort of seems to me like you're contradicting yourself, here, we all contain multitudes. If it didn't bother you, that's your business! That is perfectly cool by me.

    How many times have I "left" this thread, now. This time, really! I'm really going.
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    alt.nerd.obsessive.pic
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    And this is, quite frankly, wrong.

    Star Trek would've never existed if Roddenberry had lived in a time where he could write about things like war and poverty and racial tensions without being censored.

    It was the exploration of us.
     
  7. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    That too, indisputably.
     
  8. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Walking distance from Starfleet HQ
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Roddenberry paid lip service to to this, but the show itself doesn't contain very much of it, there are contemporary shows which were even more progressive (I Spy for one), and I suspect Gene was exaggerating this aspect in retrospect because it made for good theater.
     
  9. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Location:
    Terra Inlandia
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Just refer to them by the usernames which appear at the upper left of each of their posts, if you would. That will be entirely satisfactory.

    And the rest of the little digs can stop, as well - on the part of all to whom that applies. If this topic has been so thoroughly exhausted that discussion has been reduced to taking petty swipes at each other, then it might be high time to move on to a more productive one.
     
  10. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Original TOS - and even original TNG fans - are probably not the "contemporary audience" of the Bad Robot films. At least we are not the core demographic the films are aimed at. "This is not your father's Star Trek".

    Any worse than the actions of Captain Garth, Captain Tracy, Dr Tristan Adams, Admiral Cartwright, Lieutenant Valeris, Admiral Dougherty, Admiral Pressman, Admiral Satie, Admiral Leyton...?
     
  11. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    You may want to re-read what you're replying to for context. I'm having trouble make sense of this as a response.

    None of the actions of any of these characters are comparable in any way to the example you're replying to? Are you perhaps cross-posting from the Admiral Marcus thread by accident? Honest question.
     
  12. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Out of my brain on the 5:15
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Kirk's entire graduating class had their commissions activated because of the Vulcan Crisis, including Kirk who is listed as a Lieutenant.
     
  13. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Out of my brain on the 5:15
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    No, that was part of the setting. The theme was exploring the issues facing modern humanity in SF setting.( which would allow for more freedom that setting it currently) The space ship, aliens and technology was just a frame to hang that on.
     
  14. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    "Cadet" is not a rank. Cadet Saavik (ST II) and Cadet Kirk (2009) were lieutenants. We've been through this already.

    (Mmmm, the board took me back to a much earlier point than my last post, so maybe that's why I'm seeing this point again.)

    I am replying to the comment "the ideal was not to have people behave in completely unbelievable ways for an audience today and then say 'Well, it's science fiction'."

    Yep! In a continuing series, using the futuristic setting to escape the TV censors, as already demonstrated by one-off stories in "The Twilight Zone".
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  15. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...


    Right. It's a category of trainee that doesn't get promoted to command flagships right out of the gate. We have indeed been through this already.

    Nerys, however, claims that all their commissions were "activated" at some point in the proceedings. Maybe that's true, if so I certainly missed it.



    Really? I thought that's what your previous comment about "this isn't your father's Trek" was supposed to be responding to? (Which was confusing in its own right, since you must surely realize that if believability were this funky thing for old people that went out of fashion forty years ago and has no relevance for SF today, you would never have conversations like this?)

    I don't see how the list of characters you provided has anything to do with people behaving in completely unbelievable ways either, the reason I asked about the Admiral Marcus thread is that your reply would only be relevant if I were one of the people attacking Admiral Marcus as an unbelievable character. It has nothing to do with anything I've said here.
     
  16. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Out of my brain on the 5:15
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    That would be the part where they're all assigned ships and change into active duty uniforms.

    There is an somewhat ambiguous line in WNMHGB that implies Prime Kirk held the rank of Lieutenant while at the Academy/
     
  17. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Right. So that... sort of helps, I guess? Getting the cap's chair a couple of days from graduation as a battlefield promotion is... kind of? More believable? By a bit?

    I guess that at least puts it in just the same category of silliness as "demoting" Kirk to the role "for which he has shown unswerving ability" in STIV, if that floats one's boat. Sure.
     
  18. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Out of my brain on the 5:15
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Talking about the commissions, not the promotion. Not every post is about that.
     
  19. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Well, since I was talking about the commissions in relation to the promotions, I hope you won't mind too much my referencing the original context.
     
  20. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    Out of my brain on the 5:15
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Since you phrased it like I was trying to use it in support the idea of the promotion, yeah I do mind.

    The part of your post I quoted was about the commissions and when they happened. I clarified that for you and you got all snarky in response.
     

Share This Page