My Grievances of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Mycroft Maxwell, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    And the Abramsverse Kirk is 25 when he takes command of the Enterprise after undertaking actions that went above and beyond the call of duty. So what exactly is the problem here?
     
  2. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Oh, the irony.

    You, my friend, are instantly promoted to Captain Zinger. You're way better than that Burns guy.
     
  3. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    That battlefield promotions tend to happen with commissioned officers and not cadets? I thought you knew what kind of "believability" we were talking about here.

    Okay, really going.
     
  4. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    So you say this...

    But then you say this...

    So Kirk defeats a crazed Romulan with a supership and a magic lava lamp of black hole creating redness, leads an away mission onto said ship that saves Pike and earth, and you don't think, you all by yerself, don't think that would be worthy of a battlefield commission. As young as age 25. You said yourself. In the same post.
     
  5. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Oooo! A promotion!

    Must be a battlefield commission.

    Thank you!
     
  6. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    The real-life examples I was talking about were not promotions of cadets. I honestly don't understand what you're finding hard to grasp about that.
     
  7. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Kirk was a Lt.

    He was also made First Officer by Pike. I guess that's a battlefield commission.
     
  8. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Kirk was a commissioned officer since he carries the rank of Lieutenant.

    Look, I had a problem with Cadet-to-Captain as well. I'd have rather had him been a disgraced Lt. Commander (I believe it was a poster named Kelso who first came up with that angle) but to say it somehow was a problem because Trek was always believable (or even tried to be) when it came to how it portrayed Starfleet is just plain non-sense.

    I don't believe in holding one form of Trek to a standard that I don't hold other forms of Trek to.
     
  9. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Thank you.

    Good thing that isn't what I said.
     
  10. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Nor has Trek ever held to itself.
     
  11. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    A cadet officer, not a commissioned officer. Cadets have officer ranks, they are not commissions.
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    My mistake...

    ...I thought this was from one of your posts.
     
  13. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Do you have any actual proof of this or is it another interpretation?

    Someone else wanna shot a hole in this? I'm getting tired of typing! :lol:
     
  14. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    It is. Notice how it says "the ideal was"? I have never said the ideal was perfectly adhered to, just that it was stronger in the best of Trek and weaker in the worst of Trek. I get that it's more satisfying to pretend that you're arguing against some extremist position, but one might say with all due respect that it is rather bad form.
     
  15. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Far as I remember, he's clearly stated to be a cadet from the outset, is not promoted beyond cadet before the battle with Nero, and is promoted from cadet to captain at the end of the film. So, it's a recollection of what the film says. If I'm mistaken or missed a point in the film, then by all means correct me, but I don't think I have and I think you're still dancing. Especially given that you yourself have already admitted the cadet-to-captain things was a problem. (Poor performance, Commander Burns, I think we shall have to demote you.)
     
  16. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    It doesn't matter what the "ideal" was. What matters was what we actually got on the screen. And on screen we got a Starfleet that acted however the story needed it to act, not one that acted like a real military.

    You're holding Abrams and Company to a different standard than the TOS gang and those who came afterward. It's okay, but at least admit that's what you are doing. :rolleyes:
     
  17. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    So, no?
     
  18. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    I respectfully disagree. The existence of the ideal made a real difference to what got on the screen, whatever its imperfections, and genuinely did set Trek off from prior televised SF. You are of course free to disagree with this, but again, it's hard to see how doing so particularly bolsters your credibility as a rational judge of TOS' flaws, of what's believable and what isn't.
     
  19. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    So, claiming that I have no proof about the content of the film except the content of the film is your angle?

    Admiral Burns, you magnificent bastard. Captain Zinger is starting to look like his career is standing still.
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    What set Trek apart from other shows at the time was the fact that it was really the first "adult" sci-fi drama with a regular set of characters and the chemistry between Shatner, Nimoy and Kelly.

    I'm not sure I know of any one that watches a military show or a cop show or a medical show because of how closely it resembles the organizations or practices that make up the background.