My Grievances of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Mycroft Maxwell, Sep 22, 2013.

  1. Mycroft Maxwell

    Mycroft Maxwell Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Location:
    Tennessee USA
    People call me a hater. Probably being a life long Trek fan from the time i was able to talk has made me a person who expects certain things from my beloved Star Trek. So I thought, what is it that I don't like about JJ Abrams new star trek movies. What is it that bothers me but doesn't bother other people. So I thought I'd go out on the limb and make a list of things I do not like. In doing this I thought "Well people are gonna see some of these as ridiculous because it doesn't bother them as much as it does me". It very well might come down to my OCD. So you NuTrek lovers, please don't get mad at me. This is a list of things that just bothers ME. And I will trashtalk the movie makers a bit, I do that to people who aggravate my OCD lol. Now as Khan put it....Shall We Begin....

    1.Lensflares- This is my most pressing issue. I think a few minor flares is good cinematography...but not shining your flashlight into the camera. LEDs should NOT flare out the camera. And every scene does not need flares.

    2. TRANWARP TRANSPORTER- Mother Warper!!! Shakaree damn!!! What the Hell? This is Ubertech at its worst. You pretty much made starships obsolete. I can't explain in a post just why this is a really really bad idea.

    3. Cadet to Captain? - This would never happen. I don't care if you saved the United States from an Alien invasion, they are not gonna give you a Captain Rank with their most advanced Destroyer or Submarine.

    4. Windows - F YOU MICROSOFT!!! no really Windows. If something is transparent , UV radiation definatly penetrates it. Anyone notice how the Kelvins crew was getting full lethal doses of UV radiation before Captain Robau came on the bridge to activate the "Sunglasses" shield. And its bothering me that at any given moment, the crew could be blinded by an explosion, or supernova... Not to mention all the lights on the bridge reflects off of it making it hard to see out of.

    5. Spock and Uhura.... Yes Uhura was flirtacious with spock in TOS, but WTF? Actually I said that out loud in the theatre before I caught my self. I have problems with a lot of characters acting out of character.

    6. Chekov - Yeah that is not Chekov...well he's Chekov, but he's not Pavel. He's Pavel's older brother...

    7.Supernova- A supernova cannot threaten a whole galaxy. And even if it could, it would take over 100,000 years to destroy it after it exploded. If Alpha Centari went supernova...we wouldnt know it for 4 years. Thats plenty of time for Romulus to evacuate. Only way is that the name of the star of Romulas is Hobus.

    8.DRILL- Nero, buddy, you didnt need it. A blackhole will destroy a planet from orbit as easily from its core.

    9.SUPER DUPER DUPER SPEED. DO Starships not have a warp limit anymore? I thought they got to Vulcan fast, but from Qo'nos to Earth was just INSANELY fast.

    10. The Enterprise - whatever happened to Robert April? And wasnt the Enterprise supposed to been launched in 2245? And I think its not really convenient to build a star ship on the surface. My opinion. Also, The plaque of the Enterprise has always said San Francisco Yards (which happens to orbit the earth above san francisco). NOT RIVERSIDE IOWA. And you dont make a ship from 300 meters to 700 meters because some ship was destroyed. Ships get blown up all the time in star trek.

    11. Fencing - You do not use a Samurai sword or Katana or whatever the heck that was in fencing. YOU USE A FOIL.

    All the other stuff, I probably could look over. Im not THAT bad. But yeah these are my issues thats been keeping me from enjoying these films....actually, honestly, I enjoyed Star trek into Darkness when i first saw it. When I thought back and started analyzing it, I started to see those holes. But where it seems to me the producers were so careless, and turned star trek into something that almost makes it something differnt than Star Trek, It makes me hate it. I try hard to explain my point of view, and I cant find the words I need.

    I didnt start this to start an argument. I posted this so you guys who like the new star trek , might understand what it is that the "Haters" hate. And actually, those of you who like the movies should reply with things you liked about them, and why you liked those things you liked about them.

    Me myself, I actually like a few things about the new movies. KARL URBAN IS THE MAN!!! And For some reason I really love the design of the Uss Kelvin. And I think John Cho makes an excellent Sulu. And I think the Camera angles in the starship p0rn are original and unique. Angles we never really seen before. I like the musical score. Not the best, but not the worst either. I'm glad we didnt get another Star Trek IV composer. I keep humming the main theme to star trek 09 at random intervals. Anyways, hope I havent offended too many people. Let me know what you all think.
     
  2. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    Ulster
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Minor points that did not stop the majority of people loving the film and arguments that have been dealt with over and over again for more than 4 years, it gets irritating to have people nit pick such silly things with such emotional vehemance non stop for an obsessive amount of time.
     
  3. Commishsleer

    Commishsleer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Location:
    CommishSleer
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    I don't think disliking ST09 or STID makes you a 'hater'. Its just your own personal taste.

    I think its going on and on how bad Abrams et. al. is, saying how stupid people are for liking the new movies, claiming that the other Star Trek movies don't have any faults or plotholes (maybe thats just irritating). And to me its annoying when people lie about the 'real' reason they don't like the new movies.
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Don't all starships have windows?
     
  5. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Here's my view on some of your grievances. I'm not arguing, just giving an opposing viewpoint from a fellow lifelong Trekkie.

    2. But they had them in TNG (the subspace transporter mod in "Bloodlines"), the Dominion had them in DS9 (yet for some reason only used them for the odd dramatic escape or kidnapping, rather than say beaming live torpedoes into the Federation President's office), and in TOS we saw many species with similar technologies. Yet starships were never obsolete. Why is transwarp beaming a deal-breaker in the new films but acceptable in older Treks?

    3. I can't dispute that one.

    8. The movie unfortunately never made it clear, but according to the novelization, Red Matter requires extremely high temperatures to detonate into a black hole - like the core of a world (or a ship colliding and exploding)

    9. Speed-of-plot has been the rule in Trek (and 99% of other TV shows, for that matter) more than the exception. Outside of Voyager, ships zipped around the galaxy in the space of a scene break - in DS9 they frequently travelled from the station to Kronos, Romulus, Ferenginar, Earth and Cardassia often by runabout, without the weeks or months of travel time that warp speed charts and official space maps would have us believe those journies should take.

    10. You've kinda got it backwards, in a reverse-continuity kind of way. The USS Kelvin was 467m long and had a crew of 800, prior to the timeline split. Something happened in the Prime universe to shrink frontline ships, which didn't in the AU. Probably different people running Starfleet in the wake of the Kelvin's destruction - Admiral Marus was a crazed warmonger, wheras Admiral Nogura was comparitively a peacenik who probably wanted Starfleet represented by 23rd century versions of Voyager instead of gigantic Enterprise-D equivalents.

    I'd also dispute ships being destroyed "all the time" - that may have been true in The Original Series, but none of that's happened here. Barring a few losses to the Xindi and more during the Earth/Romulan war a century earlier, things have presumably been quiet - and the Kelvin survivors would have had a hell of a story to tell.


    I'll be back with what I liked and why, in a bit...
     
  6. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Containment Area for Relocated Yankees
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Something I dislike about nuTrek: it tends to undermine the potential for the characters to realize their development when the materials for showing it is built into the plot. It stands out more in STID, which is really a more complex story with more moving parts. In particular, the dialogue fumbles with Kirk's maturation and with the Enterprise's mission.

    In the first case, Kirk faces four moments in which decides to act in impulsive ways: saving the planet, trusting Marcus, trusting Khan, and finally, sacrificing himself. In spite of the disciplinary measures, the first time works out. The next two times are complete disasters. Because of his cumulative decision making, Kirk is placed in a position in which the only person he can really turn to is he himself. I found the scene moving: Kirk's life reduced to kicking a piece a machinery. It was pathetic, worthy of Sisyphus. However, there was no follow through. There's no reflection on what he went through. there was nothing on par with "I feel young" to acknowledge his own transformation.

    The second case concerns the nature of Starfleet. I feel that Scotty gets unfairly taken to task for voicing his objections to the torpedoes and to the mission in general. Nonetheless, Scotty's and Spock's objections ended up sounding silly because they were forced in arguing a false dichotomy: is/isn't SF a military organization. How did both become so simple minded? Why didn't they present a more measured response to the mission? Hadn't they just acted in a humanitarian and anthropological capacity in saving the Nibirians? Indeed, Kirk fumbles himself when describing the ethical side of SF. I'm not sure that old Kirk would not have taken the opportunity to describe what would have been lost had the Nibirians been destroyed (Picard certainly would do so). Kirk probably would have dismissed Spock and Scotty if they tried to bring up the Nibirians in context, but that would give some indication of Kirk's state of mind (perhaps explain his decisions with regards to Marcus and Khan). It seems strange that these people could not be more sophisticated when dealing with their purpose.

    I don't think that these problems are major: like I said, the raw materials to deal with them are in place. And I think that character development could have been dealt with through a few lines of dialogue, not changing the plot radically or making the film seem stolid. Nonetheless, more self-reflection and sophistication would make the film more emotionally and intellectually satisfying.
     
  7. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Location:
    Bloom County
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    To the OP:

    The good news - You're obviously not OCD about using apostrophes.

    Your other grievances are just superficial nitpicks and style preferences.

    It's no big deal that you don't enjoy the movies. People like and dislike all kinds of Trek's incarnations for a myriad of different reasons. More good news - Trek lives on! I hope someday someone makes a Trek you enjoy again.

    Cheers!
     
  8. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Location:
    Bloom County
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    <double-mint post>
     
  9. drt

    drt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    I'm OK with #7, in TUC we had the moon Praxis explode and the shockwave impacted Excelsior which was light years away, so there's a precedent in the ST-universe for certain types of cosmic events to propogate faster than light.
     
  10. Darth Duck

    Darth Duck Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2002
    Location:
    The Maritimes
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    I don't make itemized lists about things I hate (except in my angry letters to political office holders), I just try to stop thinking about them and move on with my life.
     
  11. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2010
    Location:
    Morrowind
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    I get the point, but I'm not sure that the US should be held up as the gold standard for good decision-making, especially these days, and I say that as a US citizen.

    I really don't think that qualifies as "out of character", especially given its prefiguration ( for lack of a better word ) in TOS.

    They do have a way of getting into space. Also, we know from TOS and other examples that they can operate in atmosphere.

    Apparently someone in Starfleet had a "go big or go home" mentality. I feel the urge to shrug.

    I have to agree with this one. It used to be the Khan angle that took me out of the movie, now it's this. The movie acts as if the Neutral Zone is on Kronos' doorstep and also on Earth's doorstep. I suppose it's reasonable to assume for necessity's sake that warp speeds are simply a lot faster in this timeline, but damn. There could be a technobabble explanation for the return trip.

    This is a new, fictional type of supernova that behaves exactly as the plot requires it to. In terms of "bad science" it's really no worse than many other things that are traditional in ST.

    That doesn't work because then it makes no sense whatsoever for Spock to attempt to save Romulus. He's not trying to evacuate the Romulans, he's trying to save their planet, which one way or the other is a non-starter once the supernova is in effect. He's not going to be able to cram too many Romulans into his little ship, even if they're packed in like proverbial sardines. Not to mention the fact that Star Trek Online ( and the novelization, IIRC ) stated that Hobus was on the edge of Romulan space.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  12. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Please show me a Star Trek film that isn't full of holes and inconsistencies.

    My enjoyment of Trek even includes the really bad ones. I could have dedicated the rest of my life hating "The Alternative Factor", "Plato's Stepchildren", "ST V: The Final Frontier", "Generations", DS9's "Move Alone Home", VOY's "Threshold", Data's death in "Nemesis" - and most of Season Two of ENT.

    But I still got my money's worth enjoying making fun of them.
     
  13. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Location:
    RIP Leonard Nimoy
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Yeppers. I keep saying it: I love Trek. Even when it's bad (terrible), like Doctor Who, it's still some of the best TV and movies around. But don't get me started on it cause if you make me stop and analyze, I'll rip its heart out and eat it.


    Marcus. We know he was he had a hand in designing new ships. Enterprise was the newest flagship in ST09. Pike was Marcu's hire (to use a term). If you want in-universe: Kelvin's destruction swings political favor in Marcus's direction, he starts building bigger ships in preparation for the war that (from his POV) is just about to happen. Enterprise is as big as he can design/build at the moment, he puts "his guy" in the center seat.
     
  14. Opus

    Opus Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Location:
    Bloom County
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    I'd say the fact the Section 31's secret weapons development depot was hidden under the Kelvin Memorial Building gives that idea a big nod - Section 31 became militarized by the appearance of Nero's ship and the destruction of the Kelvin.
     
  15. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    I also dislike the movies, but mostly because I just find them incredibly dull. But I'll address some of your points.

    Meh. Doesn't really bother me.

    I agree, totally stupid. I already was of the opinion that the transporter tech should be even more limited that what we saw in TOS. Like, you'd have to have a landing party of security officers shuttle down to the planet, secure the area, place transporter pads on the surface, and then have the rest of the group, the science officers, equipment and whatnot, beam from the Enterprise pad down to the the pad on the planet. Something as inherently magical as transporter tech should have serious limits. Maybe they can do this in the next reboot.

    Agreed.

    Doesn't bother me.

    I think they could do this right and make it interesting, but they haven't done so yet.

    I'm not following.

    I've only seen each movie once -- well, I saw 09 twice, but the second time was on DVD and I was distracted for most of the film -- so I don't even remember this bit.

    That was the problem I started to have with the Berman universe, that the galaxy no longer felt big anymore.

    Nothing. He never existed in TOS, nor was ever mentioned in any other incarnation of televised Trek except for the cartoon.

    According to who? Okuda? There is ample evidence in TOS that TOS didn't even take place in the 23rd Century. I'm fine with Abrams tossing out conjectural dates based on books whose sole purpose was to take all the disparate Trek movies and series created by different people with different visions and force them into a single narrative whether or not they really fit. As far as I'm concerned, TOS trumps all the derivative works created by other people, and all those "facts" and dates which came later can be chucked out the nearest airlock.

    But you have to admit a katana looks cooler.
     
  16. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Location:
    Terra Inlandia, Kelvin timeline
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Just responding to a few which struck me:

    The main viewscreens/windows clearly employ optical UV filtering of some sort to prevent the crew receiving lethal doses of radiation. Heck, none of the bridge people we saw even needed to wear sunscreen or neutron cream.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UV_filter

    Just call it a superdupernova and don't worry about it. They're obviously even more dangerous and destructive than a hypernova.

    Who cares? I sure don't.

    And still does, for that matter.

    Not so. Even in Olympic/competitive fencing there are three different swords used, but fencing can more broadly apply to any sword combat for sport, including Kendo:
    See also: academic fencing; historical fencing; SCA fencing, etc.
     
  17. Gojira

    Gojira Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Location:
    Stompin' on Tokyo
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    I have always found that the vast majority of "issues" in a Star Trek movie, or most movies, can be resolved vis some creative thinking. It is actually pretty fun to do.

    I also do not like to pick apart movies. It takes the fun out of it for me. So with most movies I like to just go along for the ride and do not think too much about it. However, if a plot hole does jump out at me I can generally resolve it. If I can't they tend not to bother me too much.

    If I like the characters and the story I can be a very forgiving viewer.

    Let me take this point which is very easy to resolve.

    I know some people who have fenced and read about some people who like to fence. Some of these people like to collect swords of many different styles and types. It is not difficult to conceive that Sulu could be a sword collector and grabbed one from his quarters that he felt would be sufficient for combat if he needed one.
     
  18. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2003
    Location:
    RIP Leonard Nimoy
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Maybe it's becuase I've read to much Niven, but the exploding star threatening a galaxy isn't a big deal to me. After all, the Known Space books use an explosion at the galactic core (blackhole exploding, I think it was) that's threatening all life as part of the backstory to the franchise to explain why the Pupeteers are hauling ass out of the Milky Way. Trying to recall, but I'm pretty sure Niven wasn't the first or only of the old school writers to use some form of Super-Mega-Duper Nova / Explosion is is going to kill everything; it's a thing you read it and move on.
     
  19. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    Lens Flare - This was a really big problem for me in ST'09 in a stark white background (IE: The Bridge). It litterally put white spots in my eyes for several minutes after every bridge scene at the theaters (On DVD isn't quite so bad). The one scene I recall in Medbay with bad flares, wasn't quite as bad as the Bridge scenes. The rest of the movie, they weren't a problem for me, just the stark white background ones. I don't recall even really noticing any in STiD that were obnoxious.

    Launch Date - Yea, TOS was very careful not to pin down their time period. There were hints it could be later than TNG+ timeframe, I think, and earlier than TNG+ places it as well, I believe, wasn't there?

    Although, still a bit much, Cadet to Captain, many folks forget to include that at least he was a Lieutenant promoted to Captain, not an Ensign as some folks claim or imply(Not meaning anyone in this thread has, just that some folks do try to sell it that way). So, yea it's a legitimate complaint, but, then Anakin becomes a General awfully young. It's just a conceit of the Source material to put him in the chair right away, and they did address that he wasn't ready for the big chair in the new movie, by taking it away from him and making him earn it back. Many Fantasy/SciFi characters go from being an uninitiated or trained Farm Boy (or other cultural equivalents) to the Head Hero in charge on "The Heroes Journey", which Kirk just completed "First Victory after Hero's Mentor Dies" phase of, and now he's ready to burst out into the Galaxy and become "The Galaxy's Hero" (Many Heroes in this phase of The Heroes Journey make a lot of bad decisions gaining this first Victory, it's just luck, fate or quick thinking that turns the tide. They're emotionally compromised mourning their Mentor and having to do it alone)

    The Supernova - think of it as Nature's Genesis Device :shrug:
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2013
  20. Gojira

    Gojira Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Location:
    Stompin' on Tokyo
    Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

    I watched STiD last night for 3,000,000th time and I thought of this one.

    In TOS I don't think it would have worked at all. However in the JJ Abrams movies it works. There is chemistry between the two actors and their characters that was not there in the 60s show.

    I also think NuSpock is a little more emotional than Spock Prime.